Originally posted by GunsForBucks:

Originally posted by sarteck:

I'd say you "need" Bonemass more than Elder, to be quite honest. The Swamp Key is not necessary if you carry some Finewood and make a chair in the iron grate locking crypts. By contrast, it's a heck of a lot harder to find Silver without a wishbone; if you're using the Stagbreaker method, you're MUCH more likely to get bogged down in the Mountains where wolves will nom your face off, something you probably do not want in any permadeath run.

Wolves are no problem in full iron gear. And no Bonemass means no wolf hunt event.

Never used a stagbreaker, I do not like the two handed weapons at all. I just know what to look for in the terrain. I find more silver than someone with a wishbone probably since ones that are too close to the surface won't ping.

1. Altitude at or above stone golems.
2. A stone golem being there is 95% near a silver vein.
3. Look for "humps" and "hollows". Once you have enough experience to see the lay of the land you get a good idea where to poke around.
4. Seeing a seam as pictured above with the above conditions met and digging around is almost certain to find one.

A seam like that over humps or hollows where typically they are and with or above stone golems.

I never tried to glitch the game with the crypts like that. Don't like that kind of exploit. I work with what the game presents. That is also another reason I don't like to use the stagbreaker method... don't like it in the swamp crypts either. I don't mind cheesing a boss but killing mobs beyond blockages or doors feels too cheap to me.
To each their own, and for a no death run and learning the game mechanics it works. I just don't want to do that myself.

I also try to be very careful about things since I don't use the dev commands or console. I don't want to get stuck in geometry and start over. I have done that. So I wouldn't even try to glitch out of a crypt. Not sure how they make maps in this game but you could end up anywhere ha ha. So I would never attempt an exploit like that in the first place and don't watch youtubes or other people play at all. The person who I played with that showed me many of the game mechanics would never have done that either.

The stagbreaker ain't for use as a weapon, it's used for finding the silver. You get the "Too Hard" message by randomly pounding in places.
Silver will always ping if it has not been hit.
I have to doubt the efficacy of that "seam" method in your screenshot, because I see such seams all over the place without wishbone pings.
Stone Golems I've encountered Golems where there was no silver anywhere nearby many times.

As for "sitting through the gate," I've never once had a problem with it, but I suppose it's possible problems exist.

I'm not too sure about killing bonemass being a trigger condition for The Hunt. Typically, that's been the Elder for most other things, but it seems even that has changed. For example, without killing the Elder, you typically cannot get "The Ground is Shaking" has always been my understanding, but that seems to have changed sometime in the past few months; I just got it a few days ago on my new seed.

(This is all vanilla, btw.)

With those things in mind, I'd find having the Wishbone a greater boon than the Swamp Key, to be quite honest.

[Also, OP did specifically state about not cheesing bosses, but wanting legit strats.]

Originally posted by sarteck:

Originally posted by GunsForBucks:

..snip...

The stagbreaker ain't for use as a weapon, it's used for finding the silver. You get the "Too Hard" message by randomly pounding in places.
Silver will always ping if it has not been hit.
I have to doubt the efficacy of that "seam" method in your screenshot, because I see such seams all over the place without wishbone pings.
Stone Golems I've encountered Golems where there was no silver anywhere nearby many times.

As for "sitting through the gate," I've never once had a problem with it, but I suppose it's possible problems exist.

I'm not too sure about killing bonemass being a trigger condition for The Hunt. Typically, that's been the Elder for most other things, but it seems even that has changed. For example, without killing the Elder, you typically cannot get "The Ground is Shaking" has always been my understanding, but that seems to have changed sometime in the past few months; I just got it a few days ago on my new seed.

(This is all vanilla, btw.)

With those things in mind, I'd find having the Wishbone a greater boon than the Swamp Key, to be quite honest.

[Also, OP did specifically state about not cheesing bosses, but wanting legit strats.]

I know how people use the stagbreaker to locate silver.. I just don't need to do that.
Silver will not always ping. That is probably why you find so many golems and no silver if you rely on the wishbone. Maybe just weird RNG but I have played over 20 worlds and new characters and this has been my experience.

Bonemass is 100% the trigger for the Hunt Event. It was stated as such when the event was added.

I also do not mod.

Without map glitching I have no other way into an iron crypt so I see the elder as mandatory.

Fair point on the Boss things. Although some people wouldn't call cutting a bit around the Moder summon a cheese method. I suppose that is left for the individual to decide what is too cheesy for them as much as I have chosen not to use certain things.

Originally posted by GunsForBucks:

Originally posted by sarteck:

I know how people use the stagbreaker to locate silver.. I just don't need to do that.
Silver will not always ping. That is probably why you find so many golems and no silver if you rely on the wishbone. Maybe just weird RNG but I have played over 20 worlds and new characters and this has been my experience.

Bonemass is 100% the trigger for the Hunt Event. It was stated as such when the event was added.

I also do not mod.

Without map glitching I have no other way into an iron crypt so I see the elder as mandatory.

Fair point on the Boss things. Although some people wouldn't call cutting a bit around the Moder summon a cheese method. I suppose that is left for the individual to decide what is too cheesy for them as much as I have chosen not to use certain things.

Silver will always ping. I guarantee it.

On a seed where you think this has not been the case, re-create that world, go to a place where you thought it did not ping with devcommands, and try it. I can only assume it had been hit before you found it. It's true I haven't played for several months, but I do not think this has been changed, because it would make no sense.

If you are certain this is the case, let me know the seed and the coordinates, and I'll test for myself. I have absolutely no trouble pinging silver even in the very rare case when you can see it jutting out from the surface. It only stops pinging when it is hit.

Similarly, the wishbone will always ping for treasure in shipwrecks, in the boat-shaped rocks, etc. It doesn't matter that the chest is close to the surface or not.

As far as Bonemass being the trigger, it could very well be; I'm just saying that I wonder if it's changed since the "Ground is Shaking" event trigger evidently has.

As far as my own playstyle, I really have no hard rules. Sometimes I cheese, sometimes I glitch, sometimes I don't do either.

The only problem with not killing Bonemass is that you don't get the best power in the game, especially if you are considering it a permadeath run. If you need a Frostner to kill Bonemass then you are just green, probably read some cheese guide on youtube without actually playing the game.

So there's no point in cheating for Silver. No point at all.

Bosses aren’t hard enough to warrant skipping them. These people recommending you skip bosses to avoid fighting them are grossly overstating the difficulty of fighting them.

Lvl 1 bronze/lvl 2 troll + a finewood bow and like 200 fire arrows will dispatch of the elder easily. Hide behind the pillars when he shoots at you and run to the next one when he summons the roots. As long as you have enough hp to survive a hit or 2 you’ll win easily as you’ll barely get hit by him at all.

Lvl 3 mace + iron sledge + lvl 3 iron shield + lvl 2 iron armor + some hp and poison potions will lead to an easy kill of bonemass. Just use the best food you have and you’ll beat him without a sweat. Parry his swipe attack, use the iron sledge on the mobs he summons to one shot them and wait it out when he pukes up poison. He’s even easier now than he used to be as when I beat him easily poison went through armor, and even if you drop below half hp, 1 hp potion should be enough.

Silver armor + iron mace + lvl 3 silver shield + lvl 2 draugr fang with poison and obsidian arrows is all you need to beat moder. Just dodge her attacks, it’s not hard to do. An hp potion might be helpful if you manage to get hit once, but you’ll only get hit if you stop trying to dodge.

Yagluth is probably the hardest, just grab the best food you can plus a frostner and lvl 2-3 blackmetal level gear. You’ll always want fire resist up and you might as well use the bonemass buff too. The key to yagluth is just parrying/dodging the blunt parts of his attack and tanking the fire damage with fire res and maybe some hp potions. You’ll outheal the fire so as long as you don’t let yourself get too low from other attacks without healing you’ll be fine.

Originally posted by Nascarman:

Bosses aren’t hard enough to warrant skipping them. These people recommending you skip bosses to avoid fighting them are grossly overstating the difficulty of fighting them.

Not a single one of the posts in the thread here implied the bosses were hard (although to this day I still struggle with Bonemass, to be perfectly honest, but that's just because I suck).

Please read the posts first. We were talking about the raids that the OP would have to deal with.

That was a fun read. I haven't tried a permadeath run yet but I rarely die and when I do it is usually due to rushing around, not being cautious enough when first entering a new biome, etc. (or, 'I can make that swim across!', nope ;) ). Patience and the proper weapons/armor as those above talk about pretty much does it, plus health&stam always on the action bar!

I laughed at the comment of going on after a rolling log death, that is the #1 way to die early on, haha.

I'll add that feel free to do a hasty retreat. You can run away so easily (usually), regrp and finish off mobs or bosses in far better shape. The first 2 bosses are s8 forward with typical gear. Can skip bonemass if you want until you have a silver shield and other silver gear, makes it pretty easy. But iron shield and mace ranked up makes it pretty standard. Moder is patience. So far Yagluth has always felt hard and I hope it stays that way.

Originally posted by Lucidess:

The only problem with not killing Bonemass is that you don't get the best power in the game, especially if you are considering it a permadeath run. If you need a Frostner to kill Bonemass then you are just green, probably read some cheese guide on youtube without actually playing the game.

So there's no point in cheating for Silver. No point at all.

Well when you have enough experience I guess... you don't need the bonemass power except for the hunt event ... and that gets nullified if you don't kill bonemass. The only time I get Bonemass power is to fight Moder. I can get 5 totems from villages before that without bonemass power just by being careful.

To each their own really... I accept you play differently I don't need to imply you are "green" or anything.
Edit add
OP was just asking what other perma death players do. I've probably completed 10 or more worlds this way. It works well for me with my playstyle and feels the safest while not feeling cheaty to me. Other people are free to suggest whatever they want.

Side note- When I say perma death I will still go back and retrieve my body and bring it home before I stop playing... it's just a matter of honor. <and or revenge Unless it's a tree >

Hi lads. Thanks for some good tips. I will personally stay away from the cheeses and exploits as they defeat the point for me.
I'll try the "finding silver" thing just as it sofar seems the craziest bit of trivia, BUT.. will still do the bosses in order as not doing that is not what I'm after.
Thanks Nascarman for that layout. That was the kind of thing I was looking for.

While at it, I have seen on some vid that a dude backstabs a troll with 1 shot with a copper knife (I believe). What's the lowest level knife you can do that with?

... and

Originally posted by Brock:

I rarely die and when I do it is usually due to rushing around, not being cautious enough when first entering a new biome, etc. (or, 'I can make that swim across!', nope ;)

Yeah, that is me right there too. I call that an Overyolo. I normally just yolo, but yes, sometimes the overyolo gets me too.

Originally posted by VforVeranda:

Hi lads. Thanks for some good tips. I will personally stay away from the cheeses and exploits as they defeat the point for me.
I'll try the "finding silver" thing just as it sofar seems the craziest bit of trivia, BUT.. will still do the bosses in order as not doing that is not what I'm after.
Thanks Nascarman for that layout. That was the kind of thing I was looking for.

While at it, I have seen on some vid that a dude backstabs a troll with 1 shot with a copper knife (I believe). What's the lowest level knife you can do that with?

... and

Originally posted by Brock:

I rarely die and when I do it is usually due to rushing around, not being cautious enough when first entering a new biome, etc. (or, 'I can make that swim across!', nope ;)

Yeah, that is me right there too. I call that an Overyolo. I normally just yolo, but yes, sometimes the overyolo gets me too.

Frankly that is the most key point ... stopping yourself from yoloing and being careful.

Originally posted by GunsForBucks:

You don't actually "need" to kill a boss after that until you reach the plains.

I'd say you "need" Bonemass more than Elder, to be quite honest. The Swamp Key is not necessary if you carry some Finewood and make a chair in the iron grate locking crypts. By contrast, it's a heck of a lot harder to find Silver without a wishbone; if you're using the Stagbreaker method, you're MUCH more likely to get bogged down in the Mountains where wolves will nom your face off, something you probably do not want in any permadeath run.

Originally posted by sarteck:

Originally posted by GunsForBucks:

You don't actually "need" to kill a boss after that until you reach the plains.

I'd say you "need" Bonemass more than Elder, to be quite honest. The Swamp Key is not necessary if you carry some Finewood and make a chair in the iron grate locking crypts. By contrast, it's a heck of a lot harder to find Silver without a wishbone; if you're using the Stagbreaker method, you're MUCH more likely to get bogged down in the Mountains where wolves will nom your face off, something you probably do not want in any permadeath run.

Wolves are no problem in full iron gear. And no Bonemass means no wolf hunt event.

Never used a stagbreaker, I do not like the two handed weapons at all. I just know what to look for in the terrain. I find more silver than someone with a wishbone probably since ones that are too close to the surface won't ping.

1. Altitude at or above stone golems.
2. A stone golem being there is 95% near a silver vein.
3. Look for "humps" and "hollows". Once you have enough experience to see the lay of the land you get a good idea where to poke around.
4. Seeing a seam as pictured above with the above conditions met and digging around is almost certain to find one.

A seam like that over humps or hollows where typically they are and with or above stone golems.

I never tried to glitch the game with the crypts like that. Don't like that kind of exploit. I work with what the game presents. That is also another reason I don't like to use the stagbreaker method... don't like it in the swamp crypts either. I don't mind cheesing a boss but killing mobs beyond blockages or doors feels too cheap to me.
To each their own, and for a no death run and learning the game mechanics it works. I just don't want to do that myself.

I also try to be very careful about things since I don't use the dev commands or console. I don't want to get stuck in geometry and start over. I have done that. So I wouldn't even try to glitch out of a crypt. Not sure how they make maps in this game but you could end up anywhere ha ha. So I would never attempt an exploit like that in the first place and don't watch youtubes or other people play at all. The person who I played with that showed me many of the game mechanics would never have done that either.

My last permadeath run was incredible, sharing what was most important to me:

1. Weaknesses matter far more than your skills:
- Blunt damage for Skeletons
- Pierce damage for Trolls
- Slash damage for Tree creatures (Elder too)

2. Stamina is a deeper mechanic than most people think it is, blocking lowers your stamina regen, heavier armor takes more stamina away when you dodge, and efficient blocking can save a lot on stamina compared to parrying. However, you rarely ever need Stamina food in combat. Take it from me, eat lots of meat and you will never die.

3. Potions are underrated. Stack up on health potions!

4. Max your comfort out asap as well, always stay rested no matter what. Not being able to run from a fight is a slow painful death sentence.

5. And of course.. DODGE!

I pretty much only do perma death runs anymore. I might keep going if I die to rolling trees in the first couple of days but anything past that is a start with new world and character.

Preparation and caution are everything.

Avoid boss fights and cheese them as much as possible.

Elder is easily done with some wood. Turn his summon thing into a house and it's fairly cake.

You don't actually "need" to kill a boss after that until you reach the plains.

Hardest part for me is ... well the trees in first couple of days, I roll them around to get finewood for the comfort bonus.
After that is entry to Black Forest crypts. I wait for leather or troll to get up and then start to look for crypts for cores. Once I have portals up the game becomes much safer and simpler. Then I seriously scout for a good Black Forest location for metal and build the base before beating Elk boss 1. So getting bow skill going and either getting leather up or at least on piece of troll for starting on the cores. That first troll can be risky but once you have one piece of troll armor your are fine.

Find the food resources first by scouting and get the food up for that area once you enter the swamp. Just scout the edges looking for turnip seeds and collecting blood bags and intestines. Get turnips up and that food going before you get serious and go in deep into the swamp. Remember preparation and caution are your friend. Kill the Elder only after I have portals set up on swamp crypts near a smelter base.

Get iron armor up and iron pickax and shield, make frost potions and start to explore the mountains. You don't need the wishbone to get silver just the iron pickax. Get your silver without bonemass and no hunt event. <you can kill bonemass easily by standing on his summon head or making a tree fort and shooting frost arrows and keeping poison mead up.> But you are better off not killing him and advancing the world difficulty in raids and such.

Mountains you can get silver and onions. Leave the frost caves for now, you don't need them to progress.
A seam like this in the snow at the right altitude is almost certain to have a silver vein by it.
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2792535930

Once in silver gear scout the plains edges, find a spot for a farm. Set up retreat outposts when tackling a gob village. Pull them out one at a time or small groups to clear the village. Raid for any totems and crops. Start farm.

Once you have a good bit of flax and barley then I would beat Bonemass and moder for the tears. Kill bonemass as above then use bonemass power for Moder. Moder isn't bad as long as bonemass is active. Once that fails you NEED to be careful not to tank a hit, it can get ugly fast. Dig around the altar a bit to give yourself something to run around and block for you.

Yag I think might be the most difficult? Not sure as I normally end my runs without killing him due to him not dropping the real drop to progress.

My no death runs will typically end with a plains farm and having 5 totems ready to go.

Have not dealt with the tar blobs yet so no advice to give you there.