QoL gripes
Overall an addictive and fun game, but there are some annoying rough edges:
Inventory needs work: We have many, many other games that have demonstrated different ways to manage inventory. Seems like Valheim is a step backwards in this regard, and I don't quite understand why. There's no dedicated slots for armor or ammunition. There's limited inventory slots and weight restrictions (which is fine) but they are way too binary. Like I'd rather it be that you start out more limited in inventory slots but have bags you can build to provide additional slots. If you have all your inventory slots filled up you cannot craft more food/arrows/etc even if there's room in an existing stack in your inventory. Weight limits are too binary. One kilogram over your limit, and you are limping and draining all your stamina down. Other games, like Kenshi, provide a more granular effect which ought to be in this game, so if you are a little overweight you just go slower and drain stamina from moving/jumping faster but its not all-or-nothing. There's a belt that gives +150kg carrying capacity but that's it. There's portals that can warp you around instantly aside from moving ores and metal, but I'd prefer if portals were less necessary; being able to travel and explore is a fun part of the game but the inventory management takes away from it in my opinion.
Unhelpful interface: Driving the boat does not give you an indication of its current HP, you have to equip the hammer to see this and its only a bar, not the actual HP total. 'Hold Fast'causes multiple players to clip in the same position, maybe have a second player stand on the opposite side of the mast if both are holding on?
Terraforming is tedious: I struggle to level out large amounts of ground, more often than not everything is built on an annoyingly lumpy surface. There's no additional tiers of hoe or cultivator that could perhaps do their effect in a larger area to save time and frustration.
Inventory needs work: We have many, many other games that have demonstrated different ways to manage inventory. Seems like Valheim is a step backwards in this regard, and I don't quite understand why. There's no dedicated slots for armor or ammunition. There's limited inventory slots and weight restrictions (which is fine) but they are way too binary. Like I'd rather it be that you start out more limited in inventory slots but have bags you can build to provide additional slots. If you have all your inventory slots filled up you cannot craft more food/arrows/etc even if there's room in an existing stack in your inventory. Weight limits are too binary. One kilogram over your limit, and you are limping and draining all your stamina down. Other games, like Kenshi, provide a more granular effect which ought to be in this game, so if you are a little overweight you just go slower and drain stamina from moving/jumping faster but its not all-or-nothing. There's a belt that gives +150kg carrying capacity but that's it. There's portals that can warp you around instantly aside from moving ores and metal, but I'd prefer if portals were less necessary; being able to travel and explore is a fun part of the game but the inventory management takes away from it in my opinion.
Unhelpful interface: Driving the boat does not give you an indication of its current HP, you have to equip the hammer to see this and its only a bar, not the actual HP total. 'Hold Fast'causes multiple players to clip in the same position, maybe have a second player stand on the opposite side of the mast if both are holding on?
Terraforming is tedious: I struggle to level out large amounts of ground, more often than not everything is built on an annoyingly lumpy surface. There's no additional tiers of hoe or cultivator that could perhaps do their effect in a larger area to save time and frustration.
8:13 pm, September 9, 2021
Macdallan replied to QoL gripes September 10, 2021 @ 1:47:43 am PDT
I have no issue with the inventory system as is, but I understand the complaints. Some people want a different system so they can carry more stuff, wear more gear, or just have gear on a paper doll or dedicated slots. I have a feeling they'll tweak this as development continues.
I think the boat interface itself is fine and I'm perfectly happy that you can't see the health bar of the boat. I actually think we should not have health bars for enemies, or anything that isn't you, but that's a personal preference. I'd rather see other visuals, like we have for building pieces that are water damaged or damage to the boat, to show how damaged enemies or other items are. Heck, I don't even like the alert icons over the enemies, I preferred the look of game before they added them. I wish they'd remove the steering wheel icon from the boat, too. Icons and health bars impact the immersion, and they're not really necessary anyway. The boat doesn't need a health bar. You can't do anything about it when you're on the water anyway, and you should be doing repairs on the shore frequently.
Basically you want to play without GUI. Bars and stuff replace visual indicators, so unless we get something to indicate enemy and our own health, that would be a bad change. Also removing the steeding wheel icon would be bad, since even driving you get a feel of how much you have turned the wheel. Without that icon, we would have to stay looking at the boats rear everytime or the minimap in open seas.
So you're suggesting players SHOULD NOT be looking where you're going while at the helm of a boat? Probably not a good plan.
Not without any GUI, but a minimalist GUI, or as unobtrusive as possible. Unfortunately they seem to be going toward more icons and timers on screen, and that's not something I like or want to see in the game. I really hope they give the option to toggle some of these helper icons on and off for those of us who don't need or want them.
Ideally no icons should be needed to show how much you're turning the boat or raft, it would be shown in game with the rudder or some other indicator that isn't a bright icon in the middle of the screen. You should know if you're mostly going straight or not anyway just by the way the boat moves. I'd prefer it if they move the icon away from the boat, at least, since there are too many icons that clutter up the screen already.
I don't mind the personal health bar and food bar, or the icons around the edges of the screen. It's the unaware, alert, boat icons and things like that in the middle of the screen that detract from the overall experience. The game's got a unique visual style that I really like, but when you slap a bright red exclamation point above a health bar of an enemy it completely ruins it. The health bars don't bother me as much as the exclamation point does since it's not necessary. The game already makes it very obvious if a critter is alert or unaware. I vastly preferred it before they added the icons and I hope they make them a feature we can toggle off.
11:13 am, September 10, 2021
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The n00b A replied to QoL gripes September 10, 2021 @ 2:22:23 am PDT
While i do agree on the timer ones (i like having less numbers too), the exclamation point and health bars would need visual representations. On trolls for example the alert and spotted behaviors are very similar.
And about the boat:
1- i like the visuals just as you, so i would like to appreciate them without the worry of crashing my boat because i didn't know that my character was turning.
2- on open seas with fog i cant see any reference that i'm turning except for the minimap but i would definetly feel the weigh of the helm. Therefore i still think the visual indicator is a must because, like you said, i need to see where i'm going and not looking at my boat's rudder all the time.
One way that they could compromise is add as default the fade away the icons. They would appear again if the wind is against you or in favour for a brief time, and the helm could fade away if the player is not making turns.
And honestly the fade away icon could apply to many things like the hungry timer, the enemy health bars... I mean, the stamina bar already does that.
I do think the timers should stay for potions like freeze and poison resistance though.
And about the boat:
1- i like the visuals just as you, so i would like to appreciate them without the worry of crashing my boat because i didn't know that my character was turning.
2- on open seas with fog i cant see any reference that i'm turning except for the minimap but i would definetly feel the weigh of the helm. Therefore i still think the visual indicator is a must because, like you said, i need to see where i'm going and not looking at my boat's rudder all the time.
One way that they could compromise is add as default the fade away the icons. They would appear again if the wind is against you or in favour for a brief time, and the helm could fade away if the player is not making turns.
And honestly the fade away icon could apply to many things like the hungry timer, the enemy health bars... I mean, the stamina bar already does that.
I do think the timers should stay for potions like freeze and poison resistance though.
11:13 am, September 10, 2021
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Macdallan replied to QoL gripes September 10, 2021 @ 3:54:19 am PDT
While i do agree on the timer ones (i like having less numbers too), the exclamation point and health bars would need visual representations. On trolls for example the alert and spotted behaviors are very similar.
And about the boat:
1- i like the visuals just as you, so i would like to appreciate them without the worry of crashing my boat because i didn't know that my character was turning.
2- on open seas with fog i cant see any reference that i'm turning except for the minimap but i would definetly feel the weigh of the helm. Therefore i still think the visual indicator is a must because, like you said, i need to see where i'm going and not looking at my boat's rudder all the time.
One way that they could compromise is add as default the fade away the icons. They would appear again if the wind is against you or in favour for a brief time, and the helm could fade away if the player is not making turns.
And honestly the fade away icon could apply to many things like the hungry timer, the enemy health bars... I mean, the stamina bar already does that.
I do think the timers should stay for potions like freeze and poison resistance though.
1. You're telling me you need some kind of icon to know that an enemy is alert? Their behaviour changes, often significantly, so the icons are completely unnecessary. The icons should have been implemented as an optional setting, or not implemented at all. This seems like a very small thing, but those little icons really changed the feel. I vastly preferred it before they were added, the feel when hunting or trying to sneak up on an enemy completely changed when they added the icons.
2. I disagree completely, you can tell if the boat is turning or not with or without fog, and there's no need for the icon at all. The fact that you can see yourself turning on the minimap is enough of an indicator anyway. We don't need three ways to tell if the boat is turning or not, and the icon detracts from the experience.
Absolutely no need for a compromise, just add the option to toggle them on or off, but I like the idea of some other bars fading away if you don't need to see them.
11:13 am, September 10, 2021
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Fzanco replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 4:27:57 pm PDT
True that Macdallan, I think the final product should def have options for more immersive gameplay removing some GUI elements, it would feel so achieving to navigate a boat by just keeping an eye on the wind lines
2:13 am, September 10, 2021
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cronic0_0 replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 4:29:12 pm PDT
My biggest quality of life gripe is torches and light sources requiring fuel... might not be a big issue if you only have a small hunt or a small build but someone who has a giant build with torches and light sources everywhere you will find yourself either downloading a mod or constantly hunting gray Dorf for sap or not have more than half of your torches burning
2:13 am, September 10, 2021
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Panfilo replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 4:55:14 pm PDT
My biggest quality of life gripe is torches and light sources requiring fuel... might not be a big issue if you only have a small hunt or a small build but someone who has a giant build with torches and light sources everywhere you will find yourself either downloading a mod or constantly hunting gray Dorf for sap or not have more than half of your torches burningSolution to this is to have 'piles' of resources that are within X distance just automatically degrade over time but replenish the fuel of nearby objects. So a pile of resin near several torches, a pile of wood near a fire, a pile of coal near a smelter, etc.
2:13 am, September 10, 2021
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The n00b A replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 5:00:48 pm PDT
I have no issue with the inventory system as is, but I understand the complaints. Some people want a different system so they can carry more stuff, wear more gear, or just have gear on a paper doll or dedicated slots. I have a feeling they'll tweak this as development continues.
I think the boat interface itself is fine and I'm perfectly happy that you can't see the health bar of the boat. I actually think we should not have health bars for enemies, or anything that isn't you, but that's a personal preference. I'd rather see other visuals, like we have for building pieces that are water damaged or damage to the boat, to show how damaged enemies or other items are. Heck, I don't even like the alert icons over the enemies, I preferred the look of game before they added them. I wish they'd remove the steering wheel icon from the boat, too. Icons and health bars impact the immersion, and they're not really necessary anyway. The boat doesn't need a health bar. You can't do anything about it when you're on the water anyway, and you should be doing repairs on the shore frequently.
Basically you want to play without GUI. Bars and stuff replace visual indicators, so unless we get something to indicate enemy and our own health, that would be a bad change. Also removing the steeding wheel icon would be bad, since even driving you get a feel of how much you have turned the wheel. Without that icon, we would have to stay looking at the boats rear everytime or the minimap in open seas.
2:13 am, September 10, 2021
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The n00b A replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 5:03:19 pm PDT
My biggest quality of life gripe is torches and light sources requiring fuel... might not be a big issue if you only have a small hunt or a small build but someone who has a giant build with torches and light sources everywhere you will find yourself either downloading a mod or constantly hunting gray Dorf for sap or not have more than half of your torches burning
They could increase either the burn time, drop rate or light emmited. Personally i'd rather have the light from torches be stronger so i place less of them (since they also drop FPS)
2:13 am, September 10, 2021
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Lumpy283 replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 5:18:48 pm PDT
I could post sceenshots of complex infrastructure, My buddy and I are sitting on hundreds of silver ore. We built a dock, built a road into the mountains, built a mining base, mined the silver along the aptly named 'silver road' then hauled it back to the longship to the main base on another island. I think the lack of indicators is what is nice about the game. If your ship looks haggard then it needs repairs. The cart is unruly but it works for now. I think it is worth enjoying the trip and the work. Not trying to say the OP is wrong, just trying to give a different perspective. My friend and I love some logistics so for us it is a challenge.
2:13 am, September 10, 2021
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Panfilo replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 2:19:38 pm PDT
Like I said, mainly quality of life gripes.
I get the purpose of the cart, but I find it annoying and cumbersome. Once you get a Karve, any ore nodes near the cost are lucrative stops. Sure it can't carry nearly as much as a cart can, but sailing doesn't drain stamina and is in my opinion a 'safer' method of travel.
The game seems to encourage you to build little trails to and from resources but the time spent setting this up is longer than just making a couple of boat runs. Based on the wiki I understand there are items that are prohibitively heavy (dragon eggs) and as you said stronger armor weighs you down more but overall the cart just feels like a bit of a liability. It would have been a little better if it could be pulled by tamed animals (like a team of boars or something) so you could shoot at attacking enemies perhaps. But tugging it around is awkward. Also wish there were higher tiers of cart, perhaps having more slots or being less negatively affected in terms of handling.
I get the purpose of the cart, but I find it annoying and cumbersome. Once you get a Karve, any ore nodes near the cost are lucrative stops. Sure it can't carry nearly as much as a cart can, but sailing doesn't drain stamina and is in my opinion a 'safer' method of travel.
The game seems to encourage you to build little trails to and from resources but the time spent setting this up is longer than just making a couple of boat runs. Based on the wiki I understand there are items that are prohibitively heavy (dragon eggs) and as you said stronger armor weighs you down more but overall the cart just feels like a bit of a liability. It would have been a little better if it could be pulled by tamed animals (like a team of boars or something) so you could shoot at attacking enemies perhaps. But tugging it around is awkward. Also wish there were higher tiers of cart, perhaps having more slots or being less negatively affected in terms of handling.
11:13 pm, September 9, 2021
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The n00b A replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 3:02:17 pm PDT
Well they migh add horses or tammable animals to pull the cart in the future
Also the game only encourages so in the beggining. Aside from ores, pretty much all other stuff you'll end up using portals.
Also the game only encourages so in the beggining. Aside from ores, pretty much all other stuff you'll end up using portals.
11:13 pm, September 9, 2021
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Fzanco replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 3:35:38 pm PDT
I agree with the hold fast suggestion having multiple positions so players don't clip together. As for damage if your keen eyed you could just look at the ship as it has 3 visual changes in degradation. And I love your idea the noob, horse meat would be a fantastic thing to add to the menu 😈
11:13 pm, September 9, 2021
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Macdallan replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 4:03:27 pm PDT
I have no issue with the inventory system as is, but I understand the complaints. Some people want a different system so they can carry more stuff, wear more gear, or just have gear on a paper doll or dedicated slots. I have a feeling they'll tweak this as development continues.
I think the boat interface itself is fine and I'm perfectly happy that you can't see the health bar of the boat. I actually think we should not have health bars for enemies, or anything that isn't you, but that's a personal preference. I'd rather see other visuals, like we have for building pieces that are water damaged or damage to the boat, to show how damaged enemies or other items are. Heck, I don't even like the alert icons over the enemies, I preferred the look of game before they added them. I wish they'd remove the steering wheel icon from the boat, too. Icons and health bars impact the immersion, and they're not really necessary anyway. The boat doesn't need a health bar. You can't do anything about it when you're on the water anyway, and you should be doing repairs on the shore frequently.
Hold fast - yeah. That could use a tweak or two.
Terraforming is fine. Don't do it excessively and it won't be a problem. If you insist on terraforming large areas then it was your decision to waste your time in that manner.
I think the boat interface itself is fine and I'm perfectly happy that you can't see the health bar of the boat. I actually think we should not have health bars for enemies, or anything that isn't you, but that's a personal preference. I'd rather see other visuals, like we have for building pieces that are water damaged or damage to the boat, to show how damaged enemies or other items are. Heck, I don't even like the alert icons over the enemies, I preferred the look of game before they added them. I wish they'd remove the steering wheel icon from the boat, too. Icons and health bars impact the immersion, and they're not really necessary anyway. The boat doesn't need a health bar. You can't do anything about it when you're on the water anyway, and you should be doing repairs on the shore frequently.
Hold fast - yeah. That could use a tweak or two.
Terraforming is fine. Don't do it excessively and it won't be a problem. If you insist on terraforming large areas then it was your decision to waste your time in that manner.
11:13 pm, September 9, 2021
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stvlepore replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 12:44:44 pm PDT
I appreciate the time you put into your post, but its an ER game not a finished product. You really need to rethink the 'rough edges". Of course it has rough edges.
8:13 pm, September 9, 2021
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The n00b A replied to QoL gripes September 9, 2021 @ 12:56:51 pm PDT
The weight being more gradual is already implemented in the cart (which is VERY annoying) and the armor/weapons. That's why sometimes i just run naked around the island with my loot. XD So i think the current system is ok. I would just change the cart weight to be fixed tbh.
About the boat, the only thing that annoyed me is the helm control and no interface tip on how to control it at first. If it had its controls in the corner like when you start the game and had a key to "lock" the helm (like Q auto-walks) but made the helm spring back in "unlocked" mode it would be at least more intuitive.
Seeing the boats health is just a single key stroke to equip the hammer, so its no big deal just like the cart. The main problem is seeing whats in front of me because of the sail. X_X
About the boat, the only thing that annoyed me is the helm control and no interface tip on how to control it at first. If it had its controls in the corner like when you start the game and had a key to "lock" the helm (like Q auto-walks) but made the helm spring back in "unlocked" mode it would be at least more intuitive.
Seeing the boats health is just a single key stroke to equip the hammer, so its no big deal just like the cart. The main problem is seeing whats in front of me because of the sail. X_X
8:13 pm, September 9, 2021
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