Originally posted by haroldgrey3:

I want to formally complain about the mechanic of swimming greydwarf attacks. We cannot attack with a weapon while swimming, let alone perform a ranged attack while swimming. The swimming mechanics of the game make water activities somewhat prohibitive, but this is something I feel needs blatant and simple correction.
Greydwarfs get almost no penalties from swimming, and this includes the ability for them to throw rocks while in the water. If you are near or in the water yourself and they are in the water, they do not need to come toward the land to attack you. Sure, they are rather weak, but this becomes much more of an irritant if you do any building near water or need to travel through water after dying.

what about submerged skels and draugr shooting at you lol

If you can swim and have a bit of stamina, it's still something fine ;) .
But a Viking is not a seal :D !!!!
And to go out of fear into the water, is partly sheer suicide...

well it can be done irl waterpolo why not from us and from them

but i do agree hill attacks can be awkward

Originally posted by electricdawn:

We should be able to use a knife or dagger in water. Not being able to defend oneselves AT ALL in water is definitely wrong.

I'm not asking something ridiciulous like getting no penalty whatsoever in water, just that we should be able to use a knife. Nothing more.

This is actualy a great idea and would add to the immersion of the game.
Certain weapons have always been used in water, for hunting or defence.
Knifes are an example, most divers use them.
Spears are also often used because they have reach and can cut through water more easly.

Would be nice to see those two weapons have a special advantage in the water, as opposed to other weapons ... or rock throwing enemies.

Originally posted by Sono:

we really should be able to use our weapons in the water, at the very least certain weapons. Knives and spears should be able to be used with no hindrance. It'd certainly give a reason to use spears. But, this is also predicated on them buffing/bringing more depth to swimming, which they probably won't. If swimming is fully intended to put the player at a complete handicap then there really shouldn't be a skill for it in the first place.

Black and white thinking. If we can't swim like a dolphin while fighting like a combination of Conan and Bruce Lee, we shouldn't be able to swim at all!

Swimming is a handy thing to be able to do, even when there are no enemies around.

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

We have many advantages over the mobs.

1. We are way smarter than they are.
   
2. We can run faster than most.
   
3. We can jump over obstacles they have to go around
   
4. We can shape the terrain to our liking.
   
5. They have big signs over their heads to tell us where they are.
   
6. They have to telegraph every attack.
   
7. They have to warn us of their presence by making noise.
   
8. Vis #1, we can kill them over and over using the same technique. They can't learn.

So we've discovered a tiny situation in which mobs have the advantage. #1 allows us to do something no mob can do: It allows us to say, "That situation is bad for me. I think I'll avoid that situation."

Of course, it also allows us to harangue the devs to immediately drop everything and fix this terrible mechanic. As a break from complaining about how slow Mistlands is.

THANK YOU FOR A SIMPLE EXPLANATION. MUCH NEEDED ON THIS POST.

Originally posted by ECHO_ONE_BRAVO:

THANK YOU FOR A SIMPLE EXPLANATION. MUCH NEEDED ON THIS POST.

Thank you! Though I have come to agree with @haroldgrey3: #5 is just an equalizer.

We should be able to use a knife or dagger in water. Not being able to defend oneselves AT ALL in water is definitely wrong.

I'm not asking something ridiciulous like getting no penalty whatsoever in water, just that we should be able to use a knife. Nothing more.

we really should be able to use our weapons in the water, at the very least certain weapons. Knives and spears should be able to be used with no hindrance. It'd certainly give a reason to use spears. But, this is also predicated on them buffing/bringing more depth to swimming, which they probably won't. If swimming is fully intended to put the player at a complete handicap then there really shouldn't be a skill for it in the first place.

Originally posted by haroldgrey3:

Not when debuffed by the water. The imbalance, as described by @Aimee, inhibits immersion.

omg. My point is that in every other situation we have the advantage. But, oh, no! Here's one situation in which the mobs have the advantage. That can't be tolerated! We have to eliminate that. Because we couldn't use #1 to avoid that situation. There should be no circumstance in which mobs ever have the advantage.

Do you know people already say this game is too easy?

Originally posted by haroldgrey3:

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

1. We can jump over obstacles they have to go around

That's why we have other mobs, like Trolls, that can smash through the obstacles even we have to go around.

Yes. We have different situations that we have to deal with differently at different times. See #1.

Originally posted by haroldgrey3:

Do you really want greydwarfs to be more difficult to deal with when we have other mobs to fill that niche?

????

Originally posted by haroldgrey3:

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

1. We can shape the terrain to our liking.

Some of us may care about aesthetics a little more, or perhaps, you know, not want to do teraforming mid-combat.

Shaping the terrain ahead of combat would be part of that foresight thingy we have and the mobs don't. Not jumping into the water when there are enemies around would be another. And I have used—not terraforming—but building—in mid-combat when trapping animals for taming.

Originally posted by haroldgrey3:

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

1. They have big signs over their heads to tell us where they are.

Only after you look at them the first time. And how does that make a difference. They know where we are just fine (and I would say even more than we know where they are, even with their "big signs").

You are right. The signs mainly function as an equalizer.

Originally posted by haroldgrey3:

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

So we've discovered a tiny situation in which mobs have the advantage. #1 allows us to do something no mob can do: It allows us to say, "That situation is bad for me. I think I'll avoid that situation."

Of course, it also allows us to harangue the devs to immediately drop everything and fix this terrible mechanic. As a break from complaining about how slow Mistlands is.

As a game developer in passing myself, I like feedback about what is potentially problematic or irritating in my games. Not so that I can drop everything, because reasonable people understand issues aren't usually resolved in a night, but so that when I can get to it, I can make decisions about what should be done to address the matter. This includes whether it is an irritant I feel belongs in the game.

OP's tone was precisely that the devs should drop everything, and that's what I was answering. I don't agree that this mechanic is a defect, or even remotely irritating unless you think a game should never offer any resistance to anything the player wants to do. Having to avoid dangerous situations is part of any freaking game. Not always being able to do so is another part.

I don't know. Maybe there should be a difficulty setting where the mobs all commit suicide. They just run up to you, like the "Crack Suicide Squad" in Life of Brian, pull out their weapons and off themselves. That would be a good name for it, too.

Or maybe that's another game.

P.S. Wolves can swim.

Hey folks,

please make sure your discussions are respectful, constructive, and on-topic when posting on the Valheim forums. There is no need to get personal over perceived tone.

Thanks & have a good day!

Yeah, if we could do an attack whilst swimming I think that would be great but I think the reason we cant is because we are supposed to be using boats instead of swimming.

My biggest issue is that we cant angle attacks, and there are a LOT of hills. So many hills.

Agree, Rock throw attacks from Greydwarfs should but turned Off while they are swiming.
It makes no sense that enemies keep to use all their attack options while swiming in water, while the player gets to use only fists.
Not to mention creatures dont use stamina while the player gets drained and debuffed at the same time (being wet) while being near or in water.

Other enemies also still get to use their ranged attacks while in water, not just Greydwarfs.

well it can be done irl waterpolo why not from us and from them

but i do agree hill attacks can be awkward

We have many advantages over the mobs.

1. We are way smarter than they are.
   
2. We can run faster than most.
   
3. We can jump over obstacles they have to go around
   
4. We can shape the terrain to our liking.
   
5. They have big signs over their heads to tell us where they are.
   
6. They have to telegraph every attack.
   
7. They have to warn us of their presence by making noise.
   
8. Vis #1, we can kill them over and over using the same technique. They can't learn.

So we've discovered a tiny situation in which mobs have the advantage. #1 allows us to do something no mob can do: It allows us to say, "That situation is bad for me. I think I'll avoid that situation."

Of course, it also allows us to harangue the devs to immediately drop everything and fix this terrible mechanic. As a break from complaining about how slow Mistlands is.

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

We have many advantages over the mobs.

1. We are way smarter than they are.
   
2. We can run faster than most.

Not when debuffed by the water. The imbalance, as described by @Aimee, inhibits immersion.

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

1. We can jump over obstacles they have to go around

That's why we have other mobs, like Trolls, that can smash through the obstacles even we have to go around. Do you really want greydwarfs to be more difficult to deal with when we have other mobs to fill that niche?

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

1. We can shape the terrain to our liking.

Some of us may care about aesthetics a little more, or perhaps, you know, not want to do teraforming mid-combat.

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

1. They have big signs over their heads to tell us where they are.

Only after you look at them the first time. And how does that make a difference. They know where we are just fine (and I would say even more than we know where they are, even with their "big signs").

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

1. They have to telegraph every attack.
   
2. They have to warn us of their presence by making noise.
   
3. Vis #1, we can kill them over and over using the same technique. They can't learn.

Sure, you have a point here.

Originally posted by Polonius Ulf:

So we've discovered a tiny situation in which mobs have the advantage. #1 allows us to do something no mob can do: It allows us to say, "That situation is bad for me. I think I'll avoid that situation."

Of course, it also allows us to harangue the devs to immediately drop everything and fix this terrible mechanic. As a break from complaining about how slow Mistlands is.

As a game developer in passing myself, I like feedback about what is potentially problematic or irritating in my games. Not so that I can drop everything, because reasonable people understand issues aren't usually resolved in a night, but so that when I can get to it, I can make decisions about what should be done to address the matter. This includes whether it is an irritant I feel belongs in the game.

P.s. Also, I totally agree with you, @Cap'n Bells, about the awkward hill attacks.