We all ready agreed about the Karve so I moved on to the long boat. The rest of this post applies only to the long boat.

There is no perfect test for the long boat. The wind is all most never directly against you in the direction you want to go and over long distances it tends to change while you are trying to test. I have been consistently able to out run a sea serpent while tacking (the sea serpent follows you and also "tacks" with you) but not while paddling.

Per the testing done in the wiki:
https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Longship

Paddling speed in the long boat is 3.16 m/s. The worst possible speed for a headcrosswind for the long boat is 4.95 m/s. That's the hypotenuse of the right triangle 4.95^2 = 24.5. Divide by 2 for one of the sides.
24.5/2 = 12.25
Take the square root
√12.25 = 3.5

3.5 m/s > 3.16 m/s

If your forward progress tacking is slower than paddling you aren't holding the proper angle to the wind while tacking even considering fouling your turn by not raising sail. If you run longer legs before tacking you save some of the time used making turns by making fewer turns.

Because of the simplified sailing mechanics in the game (the boat is a single hit box), when you are paddling into the wind in rough seas the waves are dead ahead and the full force of the wave is slowing your progress. In rough seas with the waves on the bow only a portion of the wave force will slow your progress. Paddling in rough seas is still not an improvement on sailing in rough seas.

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

I've done several trials in my long boat sailing into my base and sailing is always faster than paddling in the long boat except in rare cases where there is a navigable river that cuts through 2 land masses and paddling in those tight quarters cuts off a huge amount of open ocean sailing to get around the other land mass.

This had been bugging me so i came back and did few more tests...

Fitst you answer my concerns with Krave with a bunch of examples from Longboat. Ofc longboat can keep heading better, and therefore tack better than Krave. Apples to Oranges.

Second, in Longboat it takes about wind strength of 0.66 for tacking to match rowing (minimal amount of direction switches, no high sea, but it was in the ocean, and target was directly upwind). Now im not sure how often winds are above 2/3 of the wind scale at sea. Possibly more than half the time (if its not pure random like wind direction). But pretty sure not all the time.

Not saying "dont tack" but that rowing isnt as bad as you think. Your tests might have been to destinations not exactly upwind, in strong winds etc. Also when tacked as you show on 1st screenshot, thats *definitely* as fast or slower than rowing.

Originally posted by Dragoslove:

Originally posted by sarteck:

There's been some videos to show that... it depends. Usually not, but sometimes yes.
See FireSpark's video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSR-dOsaCdw

That video really is missing relevant tests. No test of tacking versus paddling with the longship, not changing sails when tacking so the ship loses speed. I'm not sure that I can draw any conclusions from it. His updated video still misses these points.

I'd welcome a compilation of testing videos from those here claiming it's faster.

I think that in some cases, with optimal conditions (terrain and rocks and leviathans not blocking your way, no huge waves), it may be faster. I still hold that in the majority of cases, it's not. And if it's only like a 10% gain, count on me sitting back, relaxing, and just paddling along.

Originally posted by ling.speed:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

tacking becomes faster than paddling the majority of the time (always for the long boat).

I've just tested that in the post you are quoting. Krave is very often better off rowing upwind. You can go all pythagoras on wiki and it will never tell you that in higher winds the ocean is rough and you cant keep that 45 for more than few seconds.

Now im starting to woder about longboat too. If sailing close to 45 deg is not reaching hull speed it would be faster to row in low winds too. But alas its more fun to tack soo...


edit: Actually yeah for Longboat the tacking brakepoint is at about 2/3 wind strength (with precise sailing, and best case scenarios for tack). So for like 50% of the time rowing is going to be noticably better than tacking in longboat. Which is surprising, and a bit sad... but then its rare to be exactly upwind and tacking has other benefits like revealing more map.

Even in rough water you can easily keep a 45 degree angle to the wind. The sailing program is not that complicated. You still sail at speed but your boat takes wave damage. In any case paddling in rough seas will be slowed just as much as sailing in rough seas by the same wave mechanics (maybe more since you'll spend more time paddling and have that much more time to be affected).

Its kind of moot anyway, since not too long after you have a long boat, you'll also have access to the Moder forsaken power.

I've done several trials in my long boat sailing into my base and sailing is always faster than paddling in the long boat except in rare cases where there is a navigable river that cuts through 2 land masses and paddling in those tight quarters cuts off a huge amount of open ocean sailing to get around the other land mass.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2943140743
https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2943140778

Originally posted by sarteck:

There's been some videos to show that... it depends. Usually not, but sometimes yes.
See FireSpark's video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSR-dOsaCdw

That video really is missing relevant tests. No test of tacking versus paddling with the longship, not changing sails when tacking so the ship loses speed. I'm not sure that I can draw any conclusions from it. His updated video still misses these points.

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

tacking becomes faster than paddling the majority of the time (always for the long boat).

I've just tested that in the post you are quoting. Krave is very often better off rowing upwind. You can go all pythagoras on wiki and it will never tell you that in higher winds the ocean is rough and you cant keep that 45 for more than few seconds.

Now im starting to woder about longboat too. If sailing close to 45 deg is not reaching hull speed it would be faster to row in low winds too. But alas its more fun to tack soo...

Originally posted by ling.speed:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

In low wind conditions the karve paddles faster than it tacks but at half wind speed and higher it tacks faster than it paddles.

Actually just tested just that out of curiosity, Krave is much slower tacking at half wind speed. I think either wiki numbers are too optimistic or tack angle before speed loss is a little more than 45degrees.
I would not be surprised if Krave was slower tacking even at max wind...

Longboat is still good but might be clsoer than it reads from wiki / feels too.

As Averest says, for all ships, as you begin the tack raise the sails to maintain speed until the wind is on the other side of the boat and then raise the sail again.

If you are sailing at a 45 degree angle to the wind and you turn 90 degrees you are making right triangles out of your turns. With that in mind Pythagoras gives you your distance per unit time. If the wiki is right about sailing speed, you get the knack of maintaining your momentum in your turns, and you make the fewest possible tacking turns to reach your destination, tacking becomes faster than paddling the majority of the time (always for the long boat).

One of the secrets to tacking is maintaining momentum. You want to start your turn into the wind, drop your sail when you lose the wind and then when you catch the wind again, you raise the sail. You can't do it down a river, but it's totally possible in a narrow channel between islands. It's a great feeling when you do it correctly.

Originally posted by PhotriusPyrelus:

Originally posted by sarteck:

There's been some videos to show that... it depends. Usually not, but sometimes yes.
See FireSpark's video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSR-dOsaCdw

Beautiful; thank you!

Only skimmed the video but for Krave yeah its not good. Longship on the other hand is much better. Even in bad winds should be faster directly upwind.

It also depends on sea state and distance. High sea is really bad for Krave. If you dont want to do course keeping, rowing is a decent compromise for Longship too. And ofc over short distances like in the video you loose time on direction switchs.

On the other side in high winds and not perfectly upwid destination you gonna be easily twice as fast tacking with Longboat.

In theory raft is also better tacked, but in practice its roughly the same speed for more effort.


ps: if you love sailing in Val, try Sailwind, its pretty much just this but better

The long ship is always faster tacking than paddling. In very low wind conditions the raft paddles faster than it tacks but if the wind is faster than 1/3 speed tacking is faster. In low wind conditions the karve paddles faster than it tacks but at half wind speed and higher it tacks faster than it paddles.

You can judge the wind speed by watching the clouds on the map view.

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

In low wind conditions the karve paddles faster than it tacks but at half wind speed and higher it tacks faster than it paddles.

Actually just tested just that out of curiosity, Krave is much slower tacking at half wind speed. I think either wiki numbers are too optimistic or tack angle before speed loss is a little more than 45degrees.
I would not be surprised if Krave was slower tacking even at max wind...

Longboat is still good but might be clsoer than it reads from wiki / feels too.

Use the Moder Power perk (if you have defeated the boss), Wind is always at you back when sailing. (five minutes with a 20 minute cool down)

Yeah it's worth it, windspeed will always get you to your general destination faster than paddling

There's been some videos to show that... it depends. Usually not, but sometimes yes.
See FireSpark's video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSR-dOsaCdw

Originally posted by sarteck:

There's been some videos to show that... it depends. Usually not, but sometimes yes.
See FireSpark's video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSR-dOsaCdw

Beautiful; thank you!