An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist
First of all, I understand that this topic has been discussed ad nauseam and that my opinion is just that, my opinion...and that in the grand scheme of things, it will probably have zero impact. That being said, I really do like this game a lot and want to put my take out there.
As I am sure you can all guess, this is a complaint about the recent changes to the health and stamina values. I can completely understand the developers wanting to add depth to the food/cooking system and to make food choices more interesting and impactful. The food system is a majorly important aspect of this game and it is a worthwhile endeavor to try and create a more engaging and robust food/cooking system. Unfortunately that end was not achieved, the only thing that was achieved was to take something that was bordering on the tedious and push it over the edge. These recent changes have only added the illusion of depth, in reality the underlying system of maximizing health/stamina has not changed in the least, you've merely been forced downwards through the hierarchy of the food system through broad sweeping nerfs of the highest tier food. It doesn't add anything, except tedium.
It only seems right that one should offer solutions after criticisms, perhaps what follows is too convoluted or to complex...or maybe just down right silly, but in my mind it is a better way to add real depth to an important aspect of the game. In my opinion you are never going to make food choices interesting by merely "balancing" the health and stamina they give, if you want food choices to be interesting than actually make them interesting. Give foods inherent bonuses.
The following are only some examples:
Damage reduction based on monster type
Faster run
Increased sneak
Increased damage with x weapon type
Increased critical chance with x weapon type
Decreased stamina usage with x weapon type (including hoes, cultivators, hammers, etc...)
Decreased stamina usage while swimming
Decreased stamina usage from jumping
Decreased stamina usage from running
Decreased fall damage
Increased carrying capacity
Decreased debuff time from being wet or cold
etc
The bonuses wouldn't have to be large values, they could be present on base food types and retain their bonuses when combined with other foods to create more complex food.
Loose example: Lox meat: Carrying capacity increased by 15 // Wheat: 2% reduced damage from fulings // Cloudberries: 3% decreased stamina usage while running
Loxmeat pie would retain all the inherent bonuses from the ingredients and perhaps add something or slightly increase the bonus values. There is a lot of room to play with, some food could be just straight large health and stamina boosts without any additional bonuses
Min-maxing health/stamina is never going to add true depth to the system.
As I am sure you can all guess, this is a complaint about the recent changes to the health and stamina values. I can completely understand the developers wanting to add depth to the food/cooking system and to make food choices more interesting and impactful. The food system is a majorly important aspect of this game and it is a worthwhile endeavor to try and create a more engaging and robust food/cooking system. Unfortunately that end was not achieved, the only thing that was achieved was to take something that was bordering on the tedious and push it over the edge. These recent changes have only added the illusion of depth, in reality the underlying system of maximizing health/stamina has not changed in the least, you've merely been forced downwards through the hierarchy of the food system through broad sweeping nerfs of the highest tier food. It doesn't add anything, except tedium.
It only seems right that one should offer solutions after criticisms, perhaps what follows is too convoluted or to complex...or maybe just down right silly, but in my mind it is a better way to add real depth to an important aspect of the game. In my opinion you are never going to make food choices interesting by merely "balancing" the health and stamina they give, if you want food choices to be interesting than actually make them interesting. Give foods inherent bonuses.
The following are only some examples:
Damage reduction based on monster type
Faster run
Increased sneak
Increased damage with x weapon type
Increased critical chance with x weapon type
Decreased stamina usage with x weapon type (including hoes, cultivators, hammers, etc...)
Decreased stamina usage while swimming
Decreased stamina usage from jumping
Decreased stamina usage from running
Decreased fall damage
Increased carrying capacity
Decreased debuff time from being wet or cold
etc
The bonuses wouldn't have to be large values, they could be present on base food types and retain their bonuses when combined with other foods to create more complex food.
Loose example: Lox meat: Carrying capacity increased by 15 // Wheat: 2% reduced damage from fulings // Cloudberries: 3% decreased stamina usage while running
Loxmeat pie would retain all the inherent bonuses from the ingredients and perhaps add something or slightly increase the bonus values. There is a lot of room to play with, some food could be just straight large health and stamina boosts without any additional bonuses
Min-maxing health/stamina is never going to add true depth to the system.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
Cyl Riadra replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 11:35:23 am PDT
yes agreed imo dont fix whats not broken
add more sure ... oh well lets see how its changed later
add more sure ... oh well lets see how its changed later
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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Polaris replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 11:37:25 am PDT
I do wonder if part of the rebalance was to make room for future foods, the game will *eventually* have 4 more biomes, which means 4 more tiers of food, but thankfully the most recent patch made it a bit less brutal (still a good nerf, but not as bad)
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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FluffyBob replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 11:54:05 am PDT
I like a lot of the new items, and I like that some of the lower tiered foods are more useful now. This game owes me nothing, I have had a ton of recreation with it for the cost of a lunch.
That being said, I hate that stamina and health have been so nerfed. Even Eikthyr power seems to have been nerfed. I played high stamina before and tried to avoid taking hits, I like to run and move fast. Now it is so easy to get over run and out of stamina. Basically any prolonged activity is no longer viable. It seems that multiple enemy encounters are more likely now and this is the very thing that needs lots of stamina.
I would like to see reduced stamina drain over all, but if not that, some sort of stamina boost better than the one-shot and timeout of the stamina mead. The suggestions above are interesting.
That being said, I hate that stamina and health have been so nerfed. Even Eikthyr power seems to have been nerfed. I played high stamina before and tried to avoid taking hits, I like to run and move fast. Now it is so easy to get over run and out of stamina. Basically any prolonged activity is no longer viable. It seems that multiple enemy encounters are more likely now and this is the very thing that needs lots of stamina.
I would like to see reduced stamina drain over all, but if not that, some sort of stamina boost better than the one-shot and timeout of the stamina mead. The suggestions above are interesting.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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Nightstorm replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 11:59:33 am PDT
I think the biggest problem was the cooking before was so simple and they just made something that worked overly complicated now.
Also I will say again, the Devs did this because they stated that people just kept eating the top 3 foods over and over again and now you have "choice".
But you don't have choice, you have the top 3 HP Foods and the top 3 Stamina Foods, and players will literally just mix and match those 6 foods as needed.
3 HP
2 HP 1 Stam
1 HP 2 Stam
3 Stam
You have 4 choices now instead of 1 choice, but they didn't solve this problem, they just overly complicated it.
Instead of nerfing the player or the food system, they should of just made harder mobs, more mobs, or more intelligent AI systems.
The fluidity of combat is gone now, because most players will just go for stamina so they can "feel" like they can move. But having literally no hp means they don't have room for error anymore, and thus you will die very fast and it will just be more frustrating than fun.
Also I will say again, the Devs did this because they stated that people just kept eating the top 3 foods over and over again and now you have "choice".
But you don't have choice, you have the top 3 HP Foods and the top 3 Stamina Foods, and players will literally just mix and match those 6 foods as needed.
3 HP
2 HP 1 Stam
1 HP 2 Stam
3 Stam
You have 4 choices now instead of 1 choice, but they didn't solve this problem, they just overly complicated it.
Instead of nerfing the player or the food system, they should of just made harder mobs, more mobs, or more intelligent AI systems.
The fluidity of combat is gone now, because most players will just go for stamina so they can "feel" like they can move. But having literally no hp means they don't have room for error anymore, and thus you will die very fast and it will just be more frustrating than fun.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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BluefactorXL replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:07:38 pm PDT
The Game is still to easy, i can not understand the complain here, i have enough stamina i can run and run and run
edit i have over 700h, have 2 runs without dying and my fastetst run was 25h solo
i use 2hp and 1 stam after the patch works great
edit i have over 700h, have 2 runs without dying and my fastetst run was 25h solo
i use 2hp and 1 stam after the patch works great
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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BGratz replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:14:31 pm PDT
The Game is still to easy, i can not understand the complain here, i have enough stamina i can run and run and runIn fact these Stamina system makes the game easyer.
edit i have over 700h, have 2 runs without dying and my fastetst run was 25h solo
If you are not forced to make breaks to recover health and stamina you dont have the times you lean back and consider your next steps. Means with disabled stamina system you run more likely unprepared into bad situations.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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BluefactorXL replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:18:22 pm PDT
The Game is still to easy, i can not understand the complain here, i have enough stamina i can run and run and runIn fact these Stamina system makes the game easyer.
edit i have over 700h, have 2 runs without dying and my fastetst run was 25h solo
If you are not forced to make breaks to recover health and stamina you dont have the times you lean back and consider your next steps. Means with disabled stamina system you run more likely unprepared into bad situations.
Hmm, i ran in plains at night, kill all furling without a problem, they are so slow no need to block, they are still easy
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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Wyseman76 replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:21:54 pm PDT
I made a similar comment about this on reddit the other day. I agree that giving food a variety of additive attributes and buff would give players a means of creating dynamic food builds that match they way they are playing at the moment. The key is that the developers need to actually sit down and look at the common things players do when playing and build foods around supporting and improving those. Chopping down a lot of trees, eat these foods. Going to wield a hammer in combat, eat this combo. This would certainly be a better approach. In the end your making food combos temporary builds for players to use as they progress and play.
This by no means an easy thing to do but if done well could elevate the game play possibilities quite a bit. Maybe a modder will come along and try something like this if the devs don't.
This by no means an easy thing to do but if done well could elevate the game play possibilities quite a bit. Maybe a modder will come along and try something like this if the devs don't.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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BluefactorXL replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:24:19 pm PDT
I made a similar comment about this on reddit the other day. I agree that giving food a variety of additive attributes and buff would give players a means of creating dynamic food builds that match they way they are playing at the moment. The key is that the developers need to actually sit down and look at the common things players do when playing and build foods around supporting and improving those. Chopping down a lot of trees, eat these foods. Going to wield a hammer in combat, eat this combo. This would certainly be a better approach. In the end your making food combos temporary builds for players to use as they progress and play.
This by no means an easy thing to do but if done well could elevate the game play possibilities quite a bit. Maybe a modder will come along and try something like this if the devs don't.
Again, whre is the problem? >You have enough stam and hp from the food, realy i don't understand what you guys talking about here.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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GunsForBucks replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:24:28 pm PDT
A lot of the issues would be solved by just increasing the rate you get skills up.
Most of the list is helped by better skills and I think it is a good way to fine tune the changes made.
Personally I would like to see a wider variety that offers more choice including middle ground stuff. I think increasing number of foods that can be eaten or introducing more middle ground foods would help that.
Also the restriction due to more items causing more back and forth for inventory emptying could be solved by increased inventory slots.
I do like the concept of making food choices but it feels to me the rest of the game mechanics need to be adjusted to that.
Most of the list is helped by better skills and I think it is a good way to fine tune the changes made.
Personally I would like to see a wider variety that offers more choice including middle ground stuff. I think increasing number of foods that can be eaten or introducing more middle ground foods would help that.
Also the restriction due to more items causing more back and forth for inventory emptying could be solved by increased inventory slots.
I do like the concept of making food choices but it feels to me the rest of the game mechanics need to be adjusted to that.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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BluefactorXL replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:26:16 pm PDT
A lot of the issues would be solved by just increasing the rate you get skills up.
Most of the list is helped by better skills and I think it is a good way to fine tune the changes made.
Personally I would like to see a wider variety that offers more choice including middle ground stuff. I think increasing number of foods that can be eaten or introducing more middle ground foods would help that.
Also the restriction due to more items causing more back and forth for inventory emptying could be solved by increased inventory slots.
I do like the concept of making food choices but it feels to me the rest of the game mechanics need to be adjusted to that.
You guys realy would destroy the game, why are you hating all new so much?
sorry for bad english, i try my best
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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Panfilo replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:28:22 pm PDT
This is similar to what I wanted. I had a very simple base idea from what you said:
At the core you have base hp and stamina from food. But they could really have fun with hp/sta regen too. High stamina regen is as good if not better than high base stamina. It favors stick and move strategies where you are smart about running/jumping/attacking. It also makes different foods genuinely different.
The problem right now is that 'low tier' foods get flat out obsolete since you're limited to 3 foods at a time. There's not enough variation in effects to justify eating something that might have less hp/sta but make up for it in other ways.
At the core you have base hp and stamina from food. But they could really have fun with hp/sta regen too. High stamina regen is as good if not better than high base stamina. It favors stick and move strategies where you are smart about running/jumping/attacking. It also makes different foods genuinely different.
The problem right now is that 'low tier' foods get flat out obsolete since you're limited to 3 foods at a time. There's not enough variation in effects to justify eating something that might have less hp/sta but make up for it in other ways.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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BluefactorXL replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:33:19 pm PDT
This is similar to what I wanted. I had a very simple base idea from what you said:
At the core you have base hp and stamina from food. But they could really have fun with hp/sta regen too. High stamina regen is as good if not better than high base stamina. It favors stick and move strategies where you are smart about running/jumping/attacking. It also makes different foods genuinely different.
The problem right now is that 'low tier' foods get flat out obsolete since you're limited to 3 foods at a time. There's not enough variation in effects to justify eating something that might have less hp/sta but make up for it in other ways.
i say the new system is good, you say it is bad, my voice doesn't count?
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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Maroliver replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:34:59 pm PDT
Yeah the game isn't fun now.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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BluefactorXL replied to An uninspired solution to a problem that didn't really exist September 19, 2021 @ 12:36:13 pm PDT
Yeah the game isn't fun now.
I have the same fun as before.
8:13 pm, September 19, 2021
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