Originally posted by Webbman:

My point was that most skills beyond running cant be maxxed from normal play. Use base skills is good but the scope of the system is horribly broken.

anyone who has 30+ block in this game spent alot of time blocking skeletons. I dont think that was the intent of a "skills" system that is best achieved by not demonstrating any skill aka grinding out skills.

This is also why they cant get good feedback on mistlands. For someone with low sprint/jump/sword mistlands terrain and enemies are very unforgiving. Bump up those stats and its too easy. if any system needs an overhaul its that one.

Wow a valid argument. I'm impressed.

Let me argue this out:

If you play as tank and block everything constantly instead of attacking you reach high block skills. I think ~70 without dying and without special extra training. We tried.

I play two weapons for example and reach ~70 with both of them till end of Mistlands without dying much and without extra training. There still would be two biomes left.

I constantly run and jump so I maxed out this skills before mountain biome most of the time. Other people who just build or sit in the base afk don't. And they lack on stamina at the mountains biom and cry. I like that, because I have an advantage over our lazy crewmembers.

So yes - seems overall very good balanced to me.

The game is not meant to be that way you described by design. You have to work, you have to progress, you get your reward - you reward yourself. You adapt as a viking - that's Valheim.

Not everyone can equip everything and is instant master. It makes a difference if you specialize and what weapons you use early on. That isn't something that is broken - it's a feature. That's a core mechanic of the game.

Sure... magic breaks with it - as soon as you get your artillery fireball it doesn't matter. Mistlands breaks with it.

I talk about this all the time. Do you even listen?

Originally posted by Gisbert:

Originally posted by JD:

snip

Where is the satisfaction when you cheat?

I don't know, and I don't get where is the satisfaction when you exploit the game as it is shown in the video. For me, it's the same thing in this case.

If you died to often, play in other biomes or start a new world and keep your character progress, so you have to play and fight through again.

In other words "git good", yeah, great advice.

Be a viking and adapt.

Sure, but before that, I will wait for more patches to see where it goes so I can adapt better. Until then I'm done with this game. I feel there is something wrong with this biome.

Ive played through this game a bunch of times solo and whether you die or not your block wont hit 20 even if you use a shield from the very beginning. Your swimming will not advance. All that will advance is your main weapon, sprint, bow and mining. Even if you dont die even once and are the most inefficient player ever most of these skills wont be developed in any meaningful way. I'm not saying the skills system is bad at all, its just that it doesn't generally work in the game. It needs some work.

The skill system is even worse for magic which you obviously haven tried. You need about 30-40+ skill to be viable which is not reasonable given the skeletons cant kill anything in mistlands other than the baby seekers and the shield mechanics. Best way to level blood magic is to stand in front of a ballista or use skeletons in the black forest. These skills also come very late in the game so there's really no time to develop them to 40+ and if you try to kill the queen with 15 elemental skill your in for a very very long fight.

Originally posted by JD:

In other words "git good", yeah, great advice.

Sure, but before that, I will wait for more patches to see where it goes so I can adapt better. Until then I'm done with this game. I feel there is something wrong with this biome.

To be fair - Valheim is hard. Brutal I would say.
On my first playthrough I died many times and I was constantly frustrated about it. I had nightmares of the swamp for weeks. As much as I was frustrated, I loved it the same way, because you get better every time you play. That was the first time a game does this a long time ago - and I'm playing video games since 1997.

Sadly - it's the best advice I can give you, it worked for our whole crew. So I have the proof that this makes the most difference if you don't want to level extra.

My girlfriend does extra leveling btw. - she reached very high skill with battle axe because she trained 1-2 days on a grey dwarves spawner. Even blocking was very high ~50 I think. So it's possible and less of a time invest as you think.

But I don't give this advice personally, because I also find it boring too.

I think no one will reach high skill levels on their first playthrough. So don't get mad about it. Take my other tips for the Mistlands enemys and you will be fine most of the time in Mistlands, even you have not the highest skill levels.

Originally posted by Webbman:

Ive played through this game a bunch of times solo and whether you die or not your block wont hit 20 even if you use a shield from the very beginning. Your swimming will not advance. All that will advance is your main weapon, sprint, bow and mining. Even if you dont die even once and are the most inefficient player ever most of these skills wont be developed in any meaningful way. I'm not saying the skills system is bad at all, its just that it doesn't generally work in the game. It needs some work.

The skill system is even worse for magic which you obviously haven tried. You need about 30-40+ skill to be viable which is not reasonable given the skeletons cant kill anything in mistlands other than the baby seekers and the shield mechanics. Best way to level blood magic is to stand in front of a ballista or use skeletons in the black forest. These skills also come very late in the game so there's really no time to develop them to 40+ and if you try to kill the queen with 15 elemental skill your in for a very very long fight.

I don't lie, I enter Mistlands with the skills I described above without extra training. I parry every enemy most of the time, because of the extra damage.

Blocking skill is hard to level, but has huge impact compared to other skills even on level 30. If you have a block skill of at least 25 you are absolutely fine in Mistlands.

My swimming skill is nearly zero. Because I don't swim. I think the most people don't swim in Valheim. I don't know people who train fist fight either.

All other skills are nearly zero, because I don't use them.

Besides from numbers which I'm not a fan of - you feel progression while doing things. That's everything that counts. No need to be maxed out for statistical satisfaction if your skill level is over top for all enemys you face.

I have the feeling to get very strong when I play correctly. I have the feeling I get weaker if I day and don't face enemys anymore.

Is numbers such a thing to everyone?

There was a high rated suggestion back in the days, to get rid of the number system completly. But like always... instead they added more numbers in Hearth&Home. And now? People complain about numbers... good job.

i just ignore the skills system for the most part. Game plays fine without it. That's maybe the most damning statement I can make about it.

Originally posted by Gisbert:

Originally posted by JD:

In other words "git good", yeah, great advice.

Sure, but before that, I will wait for more patches to see where it goes so I can adapt better. Until then I'm done with this game. I feel there is something wrong with this biome.

To be fair - Valheim is hard. Brutal I would say.
On my first playthrough I died many times and I was constantly frustrated about it. I had nightmares of the swamp for weeks. As much as I was frustrated, I loved it the same way, because you get better every time you play. That was the first time a game does this a long time ago - and I'm playing video games since 1997.

Sadly - it's the best advice I can give you, it worked for our whole crew. So I have the proof that this makes the most difference if you don't want to level extra.

My girlfriend does extra leveling btw. - she reached very high skill with battle axe because she trained 1-2 days on a grey dwarves spawner. Even blocking was very high ~50 I think. So it's possible and less of a time invest as you think.

But I don't give this advice personally, because I also find it boring too.

I think no one will reach high skill levels on their first playthrough. So don't get mad about it. Take my other tips for the Mistlands enemys and you will be fine most of the time in Mistlands, even you have not the highest skill levels.

On my first playthrough (when this game just came out), I did it to Plains without any issues and then I stopped playing because I was tired of grinding, I didn't even complain about mosquitos :) In my current playthrough I haven't had any issues as well, and then out of a sudden Mistlands feels like a low blow, it should not be after Plains, but somewhere down in the progression, I mean Mountains -> Plains -> "Some Biome" -> Mistlands. That's why I believe It's the game problem, not a skill issue. Mistlands needs more time to be properly tested and polished. I did my part so to say, I hope the developer reads and collects all the feedback they get. Happy new year!

Don't bother with skills too much since constantly dying is a part of the Mistlands "fun". When I entered Mistlands I had 58 run, now I have 29.

Entering Mistlands the first time (public test branch):
Sprinting: 100
Jumping: ~90
Spears: ~70
Swords: ~65
Blocking/Parrying: ~40-45

I died 2-3 times overall so skills stayed nearly the same the whole biom. With bonemass I could parry everything including 2* soldiers with heavy attack without problems. I play completely without bow - so I can't give information about this playstyle. A Gjall was 5 hits with my spear on his weak spot - I wait behind a stone/cliff (interrupt line of sight) until he is close enough.

Pro tips:
- The Gjall can't attack if you stay slightly behind him
- The Gjall attack is mostly fire damage / get at least 2 potions of fireresistance carry with you in the Mistlands
- The soldiers weak spot is his back (playing solo you won't get often the chance, because he resets position after successful parry, but it's managable)
- Don't waste bonemass until starred seekers show up / wait for bonemass ready when entering an infested mine
- After first visit go back with the mats and some black marble and make the better food / the hp/tick (life regen) is much higher and you get it nearly with the first mats

Originally posted by JD:

Don't bother with skills too much since constantly dying is a part of the Mistlands "fun". When I entered Mistlands I had 58 run, now I have 29.

There is a huge difference in terms of stamina consumption by weapons and damage. Blocking skill makes a very big difference too.
So... skills have a huge impact in Valheim.
They make your journey much easier/more enjoyable.

Most peoples complaints with the game are the stamina system which is linked to the skills system. The skills system is crap so their experience differs greatly from someone with maxxed out skills which you generally wont get with regular play.

Originally posted by Gisbert:

Originally posted by JD:

Don't bother with skills too much since constantly dying is a part of the Mistlands "fun". When I entered Mistlands I had 58 run, now I have 29.

There is a huge difference in terms of stamina consumption by weapons and damage. Blocking skill makes a very big difference too.
So... skills have a huge impact in Valheim.
They make your journey much easier/more enjoyable.

I did not say skills don't have an impact. I said you will die a lot (of course from my experience).

Just watched the video, looks like an exploit IMO, I think it's better skill up just by using the dev commands, and don't waste your time.

Originally posted by Webbman:

Most peoples complaints with the game are the stamina system which is linked to the skills system. The skills system is crap so their experience differs greatly from someone with maxxed out skills which you generally wont get with regular play.

I don't know what he means exactly, but if it comes to the skill penalty he is right. The skill penalty isn't well implemented.

On the other hand the skill system itself is one of the best things of Valheim. In other games as soon as you outscale low level enemys you leave them completely because you don't gain xp for it anymore.

In Valheim even in endgame - every enemy is worth facing. So you can even hunt in the meadows without having the feeling of wasting time later on. Every step into a fight you take gives you reward. The game reminds you of that later on, if you have done well or barely fought enemys.

So there is one tip from me which comes with the downside of the skill penalty and it's by far the best one when it comes to leveling skills:
- don't die
- if you do, ask yourself why exactly you died and make sure to never die this way again
- take every event, every enemy, every confrontation actively - don't hide behind walls

I'm on my 2nd playthrough atm. (I want to experience Mistlands solo) and I just died once at the beginning of the run as I quickly tried to eat something while a troll followed me. I underestimated his speed, maybe they tweaked it since Mistlands-Update and I didn't realised it in our first Mistlands run, because we played as group. Just make sure that this kind of mistakes don't happen again.

Originally posted by JD:

Originally posted by Gisbert:

There is a huge difference in terms of stamina consumption by weapons and damage. Blocking skill makes a very big difference too.
So... skills have a huge impact in Valheim.
They make your journey much easier/more enjoyable.

I did not say skills don't have an impact. I said you will die a lot (of course from my experience).

Just watched the video, looks like an exploit IMO, I think it's better skill up just by using the dev commands, and don't waste your time.

Where is the satisfaction when you cheat?

If you died to often, play in other biomes or start a new world and keep your character progress, so you have to play and fight through again.

You will never have the reconciliation that you achieved your victory by yourself if you cheat. That's a very bad advice.

As I said:
Don't die and your problems are gone. You manage this by learning from your mistakes. Repeat - the same with everything in life if you want to reach master level.

Like Webbman said in another post:
Be a viking and adapt.

My point was that most skills beyond running cant be maxxed from normal play. Use base skills is good but the scope of the system is horribly broken.

anyone who has 30+ block in this game spent alot of time blocking skeletons. I dont think that was the intent of a "skills" system that is best achieved by not demonstrating any skill aka grinding out skills.

This is also why they cant get good feedback on mistlands. For someone with low sprint/jump/sword mistlands terrain and enemies are very unforgiving. Bump up those stats and its too easy. if any system needs an overhaul its that one.

most of my skills are always around 30-40 with run/jump being around 60, since i don't play cautiously or grind my skills "soft cap" around there.

The stat skills mean very little compared to actual skill and timing.