Raid Re-design
Simply stated Raids are ultimately an un-fun GAME Mechanic when at late game.
What I think the Vast Community wants is to have Our Hearth & Homes (Main Base) be a place of Refuge while also being an outlet of Creativity. NOT WHILE IN CREATIVE MODE, but with natural and earned progression.
---Raid Problems ---
anti-Family --- Knowing that a raid could happen I will never play with our suggest this
game to my Niece who will soon come of age and may want to start gaming.
Recently Died? --- To bad we're throwing a Seeker/Troll Raid at you now, Fun game right?
End game monsters --- They simply do Far too much damage too buildings.
Late game --- I hate people that simply state strategies that EXPLOIT the AI
Pathing (Motes). Motes are Ugly as sh... I want too build my Perfect Long-
House with NATURAL Looking Defenses to deal with NATURAL spawning
enemy patrols. I LOVE seeing a Random Gobo Patrol outside my Walls.
---Simplest Solutions---
1. - Option To Turn Raids off. No penalties. No Shaming the person (YOU DON'T KNOW
THEIR LIFE!). To me this is a Family friendly option. Kids included.
2. - Option to make raids have a Real Life One Hour Timer till it Starts. The host will have a
button off on the side of the screen Activate Raid. This will give people time to
regroup, collect their gear if recently died & MOST IMPORTANTLY can CHOOSE which
FORT to defend from. This will Remove the Stress of watching the Home you
LOVINGLY Handcrafted crafted come to Ruin from either Trolls or Seekers.
Dev's---
So many Developer's fall into a Mind Trap when designing Games. It is This. "How do we Trick or Kill the Player this update." This is all well and good but when this line of thought if Followed for TOO LONG... Results in the game becoming Unfun.. Remember that this is a game and not a Corpse running simulator Give more power Too the Player's. Dev's are only as strong as Their Player Base after all.
What I think the Vast Community wants is to have Our Hearth & Homes (Main Base) be a place of Refuge while also being an outlet of Creativity. NOT WHILE IN CREATIVE MODE, but with natural and earned progression.
---Raid Problems ---
anti-Family --- Knowing that a raid could happen I will never play with our suggest this
game to my Niece who will soon come of age and may want to start gaming.
Recently Died? --- To bad we're throwing a Seeker/Troll Raid at you now, Fun game right?
End game monsters --- They simply do Far too much damage too buildings.
Late game --- I hate people that simply state strategies that EXPLOIT the AI
Pathing (Motes). Motes are Ugly as sh... I want too build my Perfect Long-
House with NATURAL Looking Defenses to deal with NATURAL spawning
enemy patrols. I LOVE seeing a Random Gobo Patrol outside my Walls.
---Simplest Solutions---
1. - Option To Turn Raids off. No penalties. No Shaming the person (YOU DON'T KNOW
THEIR LIFE!). To me this is a Family friendly option. Kids included.
2. - Option to make raids have a Real Life One Hour Timer till it Starts. The host will have a
button off on the side of the screen Activate Raid. This will give people time to
regroup, collect their gear if recently died & MOST IMPORTANTLY can CHOOSE which
FORT to defend from. This will Remove the Stress of watching the Home you
LOVINGLY Handcrafted crafted come to Ruin from either Trolls or Seekers.
Dev's---
So many Developer's fall into a Mind Trap when designing Games. It is This. "How do we Trick or Kill the Player this update." This is all well and good but when this line of thought if Followed for TOO LONG... Results in the game becoming Unfun.. Remember that this is a game and not a Corpse running simulator Give more power Too the Player's. Dev's are only as strong as Their Player Base after all.
9:13 pm, March 9, 2023
morrokain10587 replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 8:27:39 pm PST
A raid roll is done every 48minutes, one raid roll is done for every active player, but the catch is, one player can get all the raids (So more players on, more raids happen usually)
The raid mechanic should be redesigned, it's weird, it's not threatening enough to be a serious consideration in a build, but annoying enough that patching your walls or stonework makes you hate the game just a little bit more every time it happens.
I'm on a private server playing solo just for clarity on my experience.
I'm not sure I'd agree that trolls are not threatening enough. I take troll raids very seriously unless I am in my main base where the walls are high enough to keep them out. Even then, they can do serious damage to my bridge and my single ground entrance with multiple layers of spiked palisades.
In fact, my greatest anxiety right now is that I will be docking with my hard earned iron and a troll raid will breach my port defenses and destroy my karve before I can kill them all.
I also see starred enemies during raids - so maybe that is a new thing? Or did you just mean more and higher starred enemies for the intense raids?
6:13 am, March 10, 2023
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morrokain10587 replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 8:04:08 pm PST
And I doubt that there is any sort of logic around character vulnerability. It's just RNG every 40min or so if you are around build pieces - except for the hunt.
In answer to this and your previous post, it's not really just your imagination, but there isn't some sort of algorithm to deduce when you are your most vulnerable either. All but one of the event types can only occur on what makes up a "player base" (three base objects within 40m or something). If you're spending a long time in your base, there'll be a higher chance for an event going off (also depends on which biome the base is in), and generally players who are spending longer time at their base will be naturally less battle-ready than you would be when exploring or going to a battle. You may have wrong food slotted, wrong gear, wrong Forsaken power, or perhaps you've just gotten back and things like potions and powers may still be on a cooldown. You may be in the middle of renovations that leave your home less defensible than it would normally be. So it's just coincidental, not imaginary.
I see. So no algorithm that anyone knows about at least. I will say that:
@morrowkain10587 In the world that I just referenced, I logged in and immediately had a raid occur. I heard the sounds of a lot of attacks and was confused until I noticed the forest raid message. WTH, that was fast. I burst out the door and started swinging my sword. Quite exhilarating actually. After I finished of the waves, I said to myself that was pretty damn cool. Talk about no warning!
I've had this experience too. And it contradicts the "40 mins in base" experience at least. So there are definitely triggers for raids at other times - unless the 40 minute timer is save-stated in the world.
This also begs the question of whether or not you can abuse the timer by predicting it and making sure you are outside of your base during the window every time. I have had long stretches - several in game days even - with no raids at all.
I also suspect that there is a higher chance for raids right after killing a boss. I had two troll raids and two swamp raids in just two or three in-game days after beating the Elder. It tapered off from there and now they are a lot rarer.
6:13 am, March 10, 2023
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Hobo Misanthropus replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 8:18:38 pm PST
A raid roll is done every 48minutes, one raid roll is done for every active player, but the catch is, one player can get all the raids (So more players on, more raids happen usually)
The game checks to see if you're near 3 base structures, and if not, it'll either spawn No raid, or the Wolf raid.
The raid mechanic should be redesigned, it's weird, it's not threatening enough to be a serious consideration in a build, but annoying enough that patching your walls or stonework makes you hate the game just a little bit more every time it happens.
Just a quick and dirty solution I'd say: More Intense Raids (Including with starred enemies) but much longer warning window (5min+ to prepare your defenses)
If I were to take it 1 step further, I'd argue that the type of raid should have a "Target" structure that can be used to bait raids if you want them, especially more intense raids. Just as a really dumb example: Baiting a Dvergr raid with like 3 or more Treasure Chests within 10meters, or baiting a Greydwarf raid with 3 or more Kilns in 10 meters from one another.
The game checks to see if you're near 3 base structures, and if not, it'll either spawn No raid, or the Wolf raid.
The raid mechanic should be redesigned, it's weird, it's not threatening enough to be a serious consideration in a build, but annoying enough that patching your walls or stonework makes you hate the game just a little bit more every time it happens.
Just a quick and dirty solution I'd say: More Intense Raids (Including with starred enemies) but much longer warning window (5min+ to prepare your defenses)
If I were to take it 1 step further, I'd argue that the type of raid should have a "Target" structure that can be used to bait raids if you want them, especially more intense raids. Just as a really dumb example: Baiting a Dvergr raid with like 3 or more Treasure Chests within 10meters, or baiting a Greydwarf raid with 3 or more Kilns in 10 meters from one another.
6:13 am, March 10, 2023
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Rhapsody replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 4:33:09 pm PST
I don't really want to disable raids (at least at the point I'm at now) but I was more curious to know if anyone else has noticed that things (not just raids) seem to spawn more often when the player is vulnerable. It could very well just be my imagination.
In answer to this and your previous post, it's not really just your imagination, but there isn't some sort of algorithm to deduce when you are your most vulnerable either. All but one of the event types can only occur on what makes up a "player base" (three base objects within 40m or something). If you're spending a long time in your base, there'll be a higher chance for an event going off (also depends on which biome the base is in), and generally players who are spending longer time at their base will be naturally less battle-ready than you would be when exploring or going to a battle. You may have wrong food slotted, wrong gear, wrong Forsaken power, or perhaps you've just gotten back and things like potions and powers may still be on a cooldown. You may be in the middle of renovations that leave your home less defensible than it would normally be. So it's just coincidental, not imaginary.
3:13 am, March 10, 2023
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wahl35 replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 5:17:31 pm PST
This is why I kill bosses on one map and build on another.
yes indeedy do. I'm new at the game and this was my 1st thought when I found out that I could jump between seeds, like in Terraria. I'm actually thinking about killing the 3rd boss in that world and then start building a base .
@morrowkain10587 In the world that I just referenced, I logged in and immediately had a raid occur. I heard the sounds of a lot of attacks and was confused until I noticed the forest raid message. WTH, that was fast. I burst out the door and started swinging my sword. Quite exhilarating actually. After I finished of the waves, I said to myself that was pretty damn cool. Talk about no warning!
As to the OP - Dingowarrior No to the idea of changing a basic/intrinsic game feature. So many posts about eliminating/turning off parts of the game. You state this ..."NOT WHILE IN CREATIVE MODE, but with natural and earned progression." but you want the devs to provide a switch to stop/nerf the natural progression. That's what mods/devcommands already can do.
3:13 am, March 10, 2023
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vinyblaster replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 5:23:00 pm PST
To be fair, actual Vikings had dry moats and stone/earthberm walls.
I think the complaints that I've seen are less about the existence or ability to create moats and walls and more that they trivialize raids too much. I can't say I agree with this sentiment because making them is a non-trivial investment in time and stone/wood in exchange for a relative feeling of safety for a couple of bosses.As for your complaint, just disable raids in the console.
If this was directed at me and not the OP, I don't really want to disable raids (at least at the point I'm at now) but I was more curious to know if anyone else has noticed that things (not just raids) seem to spawn more often when the player is vulnerable. It could very well just be my imagination.
It was for the OP.
And I doubt that there is any sort of logic around character vulnerability. It's just RNG every 40min or so if you are around build pieces - except for the hunt.
3:13 am, March 10, 2023
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Mr Misanthropy replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 5:37:36 pm PST
all you have to do is build an island off the main island. I prefer building on a very small plains and expand out and you can have a nice garden. 4 corners of workbench. raids are nearly NON existent. while it is possible to get raids they are nothing you even have to deal with and you can create a control point for them to spawn.
3:13 am, March 10, 2023
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morrokain10587 replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 2:25:26 pm PST
I'm a little curious about the RNG of raids. It might just be me, but I find that raids often come during moments where the player is vulnerable in some way. Is this perhaps intentional or am I unlucky?
What I mean is, I'll be returning from a resource run and be at my base. I start to harvest and replant my garden and don't realize that I'm low on food. - Raid starts. I haven't been at my base long so that isn't the trigger.
When I'm at full food capacity I rarely see raids however.
There have also been a couple of times that a raid has started literally almost right after I've died and wake up in my bed. That's the worst. Getting the spare armor and weapons in your armory takes up enough time that depending on the raid some serious damage will be inflicted to your defenses/base before you can get out on the field to defend. And if you weren't prepared enough to have or otherwise ran out of backup armor... well good luck. lol
I know a lot of people think that the rock wall/moat is exploiting the games mechanics a bit, but I can't really afford not to do it unless I want constant anxiety while building or smelting, etc. At least for my main base. My docks, however, are just fortified with palisades and spikes. We will see how long those defenses last when I'm trying to dock my boat and a troll raid starts. I'm guessing not long. XD
What I mean is, I'll be returning from a resource run and be at my base. I start to harvest and replant my garden and don't realize that I'm low on food. - Raid starts. I haven't been at my base long so that isn't the trigger.
When I'm at full food capacity I rarely see raids however.
There have also been a couple of times that a raid has started literally almost right after I've died and wake up in my bed. That's the worst. Getting the spare armor and weapons in your armory takes up enough time that depending on the raid some serious damage will be inflicted to your defenses/base before you can get out on the field to defend. And if you weren't prepared enough to have or otherwise ran out of backup armor... well good luck. lol
I know a lot of people think that the rock wall/moat is exploiting the games mechanics a bit, but I can't really afford not to do it unless I want constant anxiety while building or smelting, etc. At least for my main base. My docks, however, are just fortified with palisades and spikes. We will see how long those defenses last when I'm trying to dock my boat and a troll raid starts. I'm guessing not long. XD
12:13 am, March 10, 2023
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vinyblaster replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 2:48:04 pm PST
You do realize moats are legit defensive feature historically used by Vikings.
As for your complaint, just disable raids in the console.
As for your complaint, just disable raids in the console.
12:13 am, March 10, 2023
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umop-apisdn replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 3:08:50 pm PST
I hate people that simply state strategies that EXPLOIT the AI
Pathing (Motes). Motes are Ugly as sh...
To be fair, actual Vikings had dry moats and stone/earthberm walls. Check out this google image search and be astounded.
https://www.google.com/search?q=historical+viking+defensive+structures
12:13 am, March 10, 2023
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Nascarman replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 3:45:17 pm PST
I can get behind a dev command that disables raids, but nothing outside of that. It’s a game feature, you should have to use cheats to turn it off.
12:13 am, March 10, 2023
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morrokain10587 replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 4:02:35 pm PST
To be fair, actual Vikings had dry moats and stone/earthberm walls.
I think the complaints that I've seen are less about the existence or ability to create moats and walls and more that they trivialize raids too much. I can't say I agree with this sentiment because making them is a non-trivial investment in time and stone/wood in exchange for a relative feeling of safety for a couple of bosses.
As for your complaint, just disable raids in the console.
If this was directed at me and not the OP, I don't really want to disable raids (at least at the point I'm at now) but I was more curious to know if anyone else has noticed that things (not just raids) seem to spawn more often when the player is vulnerable. It could very well just be my imagination.
12:13 am, March 10, 2023
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Heron replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 12:37:00 pm PST
I'm simply running a mod that can disable raids altogether. I haven't missed them since.
9:13 pm, March 9, 2023
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Qrazy replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 11:55:58 am PST
This is why I kill bosses on one map and build on another.
9:13 pm, March 9, 2023
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Rhapsody replied to Raid Re-design March 9, 2023 @ 12:22:16 pm PST
You can already use mods or console commands to achieve what you want, and the developer has already announced they are working on some kind of world difficulty settings.
9:13 pm, March 9, 2023
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