Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands
When Mistlands came out, I fired up an old save. Found some Mistlands and explored some. Not too worried about deaths, I was rusty and planned on starting a new world. Died after just a few minutes, completely swarmed and punted into a ravine.
Had a blast on a new world and new character. A few frustrating deaths. Going into Mistlands, I knew what to expect, I came prepared with the best gear and the best food. But learning curve and deaths really aren't an issue.
Mistlands is just not fun. I grit my teeth through a ton of difficult deaths and harrowing corpse runs in all of the existing biomes. Super frustrating. But each new biome was enticing, I wanted to explore them. All of them. The combination of ineffective inundating wisplight, horrible (worse than horrible) terrain and learning new enemies and their tactics all at the introduction to the biome is just too much. The terrain is really the breaking point, it's not like Valheim has great verticality gameplay, it's janky, I have died countless times to phantom fall damage. It took me forever just to clamber up and down the terrain to travel a short distance all while I was virtually blind.
I can't imagine having fun at all exploring this biome. Whether enemies are nerfed or not. Whether they even exist or not. The biome just doesn't inspire curiosity. Row after row of impossible obnoxious obelisks jutting haphazardly shrouded in murk. It's just not fun being blind. It's just not fun being imprisoned in impassable terrain. The devs took a game begging you to screenshot and then made you blind. They took a world that begged you to explore and filled it with giant prison walls. It doesn't feel like the same game at all. Mistlands is equivalent to plains if plains was covered entirely by tar pits.
For the first time, I just don't care enough to figure out a way back to my corpse. I have died hundreds of times through four complete playthroughs. I always wanted to make the run back to my corpse and continue playing. There was a ruin on the hill that piqued my curiosity. A knoll that I wanted to explore, a glimpse of a cave or an eerie glow in the swamp. Or the draugr village that I wanted to exact my revenge upon. Enemies and combat are not the draw or the problem with Mistlands. The enemies have always just been hurdles that you need to jump over to continue exploring. I expect a learning curve, new tactics but I really don't care, the enemies become uninteresting (repetitively annoying) rather quickly. The jump in difficulty is not the problem. It does not bother me that I died, I expect it. It bothers me that I don't want to go back like I always have.
Pretty sure that the first thing I did when entering Black Forest for the first time was stopping to take a screenshot. Followed quickly by crapping my pants when I heard a troll stomping towards me. The swamp has an eery calm and mountain sunsets are a beauty to behold. The plains with blowing grasses and leaves. Within 10 minutes of entering a new biome, I start to envision where I want to build. How could testers play Mistlands and not realize that kind appeal was missing? Why would I want to build in Mistlands? Can I even see what I built?
I imagine it's too late for sweeping changes and maybe there is a huge silent majority that loves Mistlands the way it is. I am tired of the "every enemy should one shot you and then teabag you until you get your corpse back" rhetoric that is dominating the discussion about Mistlands. The difficulty curve in all of the other zones is fine, I am guessing that Mistlands is fine too once you learn the tactics. It is the charm, exploration and building that is lacking. I would restrict the black marble obelisk jungles to outcroppings. Put the mist in bug nests (is there such a thing?) and water features (is there such a thing?). Give me something that looks epic the moment I step foot into it. Terrain and features that beg me to explore and build on.
It was a mistake to blind the player. It was a mistake to make the biome impassable. It was a blunder to combine the two and make that the introduction and the totality of the biome. Those things should be the points of interest that draw you further in. That tempt you with reward and punish your greed.
I appreciate the devs dedication and passion but for me, Mistlands strayed too far off course. My Valheim journey ends at Yagluth's altar, Odin will have to find another warrior.
Had a blast on a new world and new character. A few frustrating deaths. Going into Mistlands, I knew what to expect, I came prepared with the best gear and the best food. But learning curve and deaths really aren't an issue.
Mistlands is just not fun. I grit my teeth through a ton of difficult deaths and harrowing corpse runs in all of the existing biomes. Super frustrating. But each new biome was enticing, I wanted to explore them. All of them. The combination of ineffective inundating wisplight, horrible (worse than horrible) terrain and learning new enemies and their tactics all at the introduction to the biome is just too much. The terrain is really the breaking point, it's not like Valheim has great verticality gameplay, it's janky, I have died countless times to phantom fall damage. It took me forever just to clamber up and down the terrain to travel a short distance all while I was virtually blind.
I can't imagine having fun at all exploring this biome. Whether enemies are nerfed or not. Whether they even exist or not. The biome just doesn't inspire curiosity. Row after row of impossible obnoxious obelisks jutting haphazardly shrouded in murk. It's just not fun being blind. It's just not fun being imprisoned in impassable terrain. The devs took a game begging you to screenshot and then made you blind. They took a world that begged you to explore and filled it with giant prison walls. It doesn't feel like the same game at all. Mistlands is equivalent to plains if plains was covered entirely by tar pits.
For the first time, I just don't care enough to figure out a way back to my corpse. I have died hundreds of times through four complete playthroughs. I always wanted to make the run back to my corpse and continue playing. There was a ruin on the hill that piqued my curiosity. A knoll that I wanted to explore, a glimpse of a cave or an eerie glow in the swamp. Or the draugr village that I wanted to exact my revenge upon. Enemies and combat are not the draw or the problem with Mistlands. The enemies have always just been hurdles that you need to jump over to continue exploring. I expect a learning curve, new tactics but I really don't care, the enemies become uninteresting (repetitively annoying) rather quickly. The jump in difficulty is not the problem. It does not bother me that I died, I expect it. It bothers me that I don't want to go back like I always have.
Pretty sure that the first thing I did when entering Black Forest for the first time was stopping to take a screenshot. Followed quickly by crapping my pants when I heard a troll stomping towards me. The swamp has an eery calm and mountain sunsets are a beauty to behold. The plains with blowing grasses and leaves. Within 10 minutes of entering a new biome, I start to envision where I want to build. How could testers play Mistlands and not realize that kind appeal was missing? Why would I want to build in Mistlands? Can I even see what I built?
I imagine it's too late for sweeping changes and maybe there is a huge silent majority that loves Mistlands the way it is. I am tired of the "every enemy should one shot you and then teabag you until you get your corpse back" rhetoric that is dominating the discussion about Mistlands. The difficulty curve in all of the other zones is fine, I am guessing that Mistlands is fine too once you learn the tactics. It is the charm, exploration and building that is lacking. I would restrict the black marble obelisk jungles to outcroppings. Put the mist in bug nests (is there such a thing?) and water features (is there such a thing?). Give me something that looks epic the moment I step foot into it. Terrain and features that beg me to explore and build on.
It was a mistake to blind the player. It was a mistake to make the biome impassable. It was a blunder to combine the two and make that the introduction and the totality of the biome. Those things should be the points of interest that draw you further in. That tempt you with reward and punish your greed.
I appreciate the devs dedication and passion but for me, Mistlands strayed too far off course. My Valheim journey ends at Yagluth's altar, Odin will have to find another warrior.
9:13 am, December 31, 2022
autumndragonfalling replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 7:39:18 am PST
When we reattach Valheim to the World Tree in the endgame the mists will clear.
6:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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jrc replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 7:54:58 am PST
The "jump the shark" reference comes from the old show, Happy Days. For a long time, it was clear the writers were out of ideas, so they had "Fonzie," complete with leather jacket, do a water-skiing episode where he jumps over a shark. It's a classic meme for having gone so far as to be ridiculous.
Personally, I think the original concept had a more interesting premise, what with the webs and all. Throw in some echos and spiders (not the Starship Troopers stuff), and what-not, and caves, and it could have been very interesting. I had been looking forward to it.
Personally, I think the original concept had a more interesting premise, what with the webs and all. Throw in some echos and spiders (not the Starship Troopers stuff), and what-not, and caves, and it could have been very interesting. I had been looking forward to it.
6:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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Webbman replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 7:59:41 am PST
kind of hilarious because mistlands is pretty much a copy of the black forest.
6:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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jonnin replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 8:08:04 am PST
Do you have the light to clear the mist some? Its easy to miss it if you killed yag a long time ago.
I have never died to fake fall damage, not sure what that even is, but certainly normal fall damage gets me here & there.
The terrain is, as you said, obnoxious. And there isn't a lot to see, you have ruined buildings, some of which have a mine, some of which are populated by NPC, and you have dead giants, which you need 3 or so of (more if you do a black marble castle).
Outside that is bugs, bunny, trees, and shrooms with that up/down terrain fit for the duke of york. Copper and iron are plentiful if you want it.
The good news is you don't have to spend that much time here -- a few days and I am done.
Literally claiming one ruin (haul some cores with you so you can make a smelter and make a stonecutter) near a sap-root for a base/farm/sap/fishing hole/etc access point is half the battle. Then gather one set of bones and a couple of mines to get 5 cores and you can cook up most of the new equipment. From there, you need more cores so you don't have to tear down and remake the crafting stuff, but that can happen in its own time, spread out a bit to avoid grind/tedium. The only thing that would make it take more than a few days is finding mines, which can be tricky.
what is actually useful here..
- new foods. The key ones are the salad (easy stam food), meat platter (easy health food), hare supreme, and grilled bug (like grilled lox, low quality but good junk food for easy areas). The others are great too, but this is a balance of effort and reward -- the fish&bread is excellent but fishing IN BULK is annoying now.
- new weapons (lots to love here)
- new cape. no more dying while building tall is worth the whole aggravation to get it. It helps the up/down problem too, but time you have it, you don't care as much.
- the lanterns (no fuel lights at home isnt critical but I love this)
* I would say magic but it requires food that is very difficult to get (royal jelly) enough of to justify it. I would say armor, but its not enough better to get fired up about for now. Make it in your own time, so when upgrades are out you are ready.
I have never died to fake fall damage, not sure what that even is, but certainly normal fall damage gets me here & there.
The terrain is, as you said, obnoxious. And there isn't a lot to see, you have ruined buildings, some of which have a mine, some of which are populated by NPC, and you have dead giants, which you need 3 or so of (more if you do a black marble castle).
Outside that is bugs, bunny, trees, and shrooms with that up/down terrain fit for the duke of york. Copper and iron are plentiful if you want it.
The good news is you don't have to spend that much time here -- a few days and I am done.
Literally claiming one ruin (haul some cores with you so you can make a smelter and make a stonecutter) near a sap-root for a base/farm/sap/fishing hole/etc access point is half the battle. Then gather one set of bones and a couple of mines to get 5 cores and you can cook up most of the new equipment. From there, you need more cores so you don't have to tear down and remake the crafting stuff, but that can happen in its own time, spread out a bit to avoid grind/tedium. The only thing that would make it take more than a few days is finding mines, which can be tricky.
what is actually useful here..
- new foods. The key ones are the salad (easy stam food), meat platter (easy health food), hare supreme, and grilled bug (like grilled lox, low quality but good junk food for easy areas). The others are great too, but this is a balance of effort and reward -- the fish&bread is excellent but fishing IN BULK is annoying now.
- new weapons (lots to love here)
- new cape. no more dying while building tall is worth the whole aggravation to get it. It helps the up/down problem too, but time you have it, you don't care as much.
- the lanterns (no fuel lights at home isnt critical but I love this)
* I would say magic but it requires food that is very difficult to get (royal jelly) enough of to justify it. I would say armor, but its not enough better to get fired up about for now. Make it in your own time, so when upgrades are out you are ready.
6:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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Yakumo_2020 replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 8:08:48 am PST
whats really funny about the "Jump the Shark" reference is that Happy Days went on for another 6+ seasons after that episode and won some awards and awards during it's post shark jump run. The "jump the shark" reference comes from the old show, Happy Days. For a long time, it was clear the writers were out of ideas, so they had "Fonzie," complete with leather jacket, do a water-skiing episode where he jumps over a shark. It's a classic meme for having gone so far as to be ridiculous.
Personally, I think the original concept had a more interesting premise, what with the webs and all. Throw in some echos and spiders (not the Starship Troopers stuff), and what-not, and caves, and it could have been very interesting. I had been looking forward to it.
But the reference is valid, when the creators of something run out of good ideas they start coming up with horribly stupid ideas just to try to keep it alive.
Sometimes they succeed, sometimes they fail.
6:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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Cykotich replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 9:47:39 am PST
This was exquisitely well written! I couldn't agree with the sentiment more. It is saddening to me to come to the realization that I am no longer the target audience for video games. Things that I loved about gaming are considered too old-school any more. The target audience are the very young to young. The trend seems to be leading towards games that are difficult just for the sake of being difficult. I can see why based on some of the comments here. I'm certain I'm not the only gamer staring down the barrel of my 40's and shaking my head, but we're much less outspoken than the up-and-comers that are now the target audiences of developers. I absolutely adored this game, but with the addition of mistlands, even with all of the new things that it brings, I feel that it may be time to shelve Valheim for a while. I feel that your post was eloquent, to the point, and a fantastic summation of my feelings on the release as well. Well done!
6:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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Erazer replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 9:47:50 am PST
The mist is bad, agree, but I could live with that. What is killing the experience for me is the landscape. Navigating through there is just annoying. Frustrating climbs everywhere, worse than the mountains. At least you could walk in the mountains after the initial climb...
Every area posed a challenge on how to build a small fortress as supply point. In mistlands I don't even want to. You have those airships bombing your base as soon as you start. It's just babysitting and not a pleasant experience for me.
Every area posed a challenge on how to build a small fortress as supply point. In mistlands I don't even want to. You have those airships bombing your base as soon as you start. It's just babysitting and not a pleasant experience for me.
6:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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DarthTanyon replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 5:26:13 am PST
I think the next time I play with my mates on a server we are going to reduce jump stam cost by 50% and get rid of the mist once we get the wisp lights. The biome is GORGEOUS but you can never see more than 10ft of it unless you happen to get into one of the rare areas that isn't in the mist. I get the idea.. i understand the premise but it sucks.. I really grew to love every other biome for their beauty and I think the mist just robs us of something. It does not make the biome any more deadly or difficult it is just really annoying..
3:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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Gunnar Hurtya replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 1:48:50 am PST
Only true Vikings can prosper, your weakness has been noted.
12:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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fiese Fee™ replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 1:57:41 am PST
Mistlands are fine.
12:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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Gromarch replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 2:09:47 am PST
Imo, Mistlands are awesome.
12:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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Silver replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 2:29:43 am PST
I couldn't put the issues better myself. The magic simply ends for me. Being blinded by the excessive mists, for someone who sight impairment in the real world as it is, was what did it for me. People throwing shade on your opinions need to understand civil disagreement and perhaps sympathy that a spark of joyful magic has gone out of the world instead of treating your (and my!) feelings on the matter as empirically wrong.
Thanks for writing so eloquently on the subject, lars.hoppa! ♥
Thanks for writing so eloquently on the subject, lars.hoppa! ♥
12:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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Storm Vader replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 2:50:06 am PST
I completely agree, the no sight thing, just makes this tedious, even after I learned that the ultra easy to build wisp standing torch banishes the mist, i spent all day walking around fighting Gjall spawns and planting torches, just so i could find 0 mines. And those things spawn almost as soon as you plant a few, even after the nerf, the AI wants to attack the torches bad and wipe them out. FFS let me find the dungeons and towns, let me get a look at the place beyond seaside and waiting for the mist to shift. Better yet let us build a special beacon that banishes the mist from whole regions. something.
12:13 pm, December 31, 2022
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dave replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 30, 2022 @ 10:50:54 pm PST
I think magic and the mistlands nerf made mistlands super easy. Even early level magic destroys mistlands everything with the right food. I was always melee everything in this game. I then tried the staves and everything seems over nerfed now.
9:13 am, December 31, 2022
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Faceplant8 replied to Devs jumped the shark with Mistlands December 31, 2022 @ 12:09:51 am PST
I think magic and the mistlands nerf made mistlands super easy. Even early level magic destroys mistlands everything with the right food. I was always melee everything in this game. I then tried the staves and everything seems over nerfed now.
Those are two different games, which I think is the root of the problem. I believe what the OP is describing is the "before cores" time, which, IMO takes too long. I haven't tried magic yet, but just the cape completely changes the game.
All the other biomes reward you early with some sort of upgrade. It may not do much, but it is something. In Mistlands you don't get anything until you get enough cores, which can take quite a long time for some. At that point, the whole game changes, but only if the players sticks around until they reach that point.
That said, I don't know about the "every enemy should one shot you" comment. I haven't encountered anything in Mistlands that can one shot me.
9:13 am, December 31, 2022
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