To me, "brutal" means that it is easy to get killed, and that dying is punished. Which is exactly what happens in the game.

Didn't keep your foods up? Too bad, you're dead.
Didn't manage your stamina properly? Too bad, you're dead.
Didn't refresh your Rested buff, especially if also Cold? Too bad, you're dead.
Were overconfident in your combat abilities? Too bad, you're dead.
Didn't look where you were going and fell off a cliff? Too bad, you're dead.
Didn't think before taking on a difficult enemy or a group of enemies? Too bad, you're dead.

Basically:
Weren't prepared? Too bad, you're dead.

Dying punishment, of course, is dropping the entire inventory and losing skills. The former can cause a huge problem if you die in a spot that's hard to reach.

To me "brutal" means the game attracts audience outside of its genre.

Valheim is "brutal" because it looks like viking minecraft to people and then comes realization its a normal action game but with lots of crafting / building.

I think the "brutal" part comes with how is the player expected to learn. Its not a game slowely dripping harder content in controlled manner, which allows learning on the job while not dieing that many of the older audience expects, or die a lot with minimal punishment that very young expect.

Its "brutal" because you are suppesed to die AND learn (like dark souls, which is also brutal!). Just like in more action oriented games. and its "brutal" because the map RNG, where you can have difficulty spikes that are not hand crafted to be >intuitive to notice and solve<.


So while i would not call Val even close to Brutal, that label is helping set the expectations more straight.

Brutal means if virtual depictions devoid of emotion make you cry than maybe don't play this game.

There's nothing "brutal" about a game having mobs that one-shot the player, it's just lazy game design. I have pretty much given up on Valheim for the second time over this. Hopefully, they'll get around to adding a casual game mode that makes it possible to enjoy the other two thirds of the game that I already paid for but have yet to see because I get one-shot killed whenever I try to go beyond the swamp.

"Gamers" from the arcade days expected hard and brutal games. After all a hard game used less time and generated more cash for the game programmers and gamers got a sense of accomplishment from how long they could play on one quarter. Let's call these first generation gamers.

Then console type games came out. You bought the system and paid for the cartridge and could play as long as you wanted for no extra cost. That made those games more accessible to more people and if a game was too "brutal" resulted in less sales to people that weren't hard core gamers so game companies started making them a little easier to entice the new players while still holding on to their hard core base of players. These would be second generation gamers.

Then computers became inexpensive enough that buying one and using it for game programs became even more cost effective and since the computer could be used for more than games, gaming culture added more casual players that decided they were gamers. This resulted in more games of lower difficulty for the same reasons as above and third and fourth generation gamers.

Today's smart phones are more of a computer than gaming rigs from 20 years ago and the advent of the internet means that we have gone from text to video and and interactive games to RTS an idle games and even more (and younger) players are playing and the even more casual gamers are looking for more of an interactive movie experience (click the right buttons in the right order and watch a pretty cut scene) and less of a gaming experience involving skill. That's why some people watch stearmers on twitch. To them its just watching a free movie but it can have different endings depending on who is streaming. These are 5th or maybe even sixth generation gamers.

Demand for hard games have gone down even more. That's why there was an outcry from the "gaming community" when Elden Ring was released and had no difficulty sliders. It appealed to the hard core first and second generation gamer groups and most other groups that now call themselves gamers believed it to be "too hard" while OG folks like me consider it to be "just right".

A brutal game has changed definitions over the years. This is the viewpoint of an old time gamer (me) and what I saw change through my life time. I started out programming computers using punch cards and key punch but here is where we are now. I liked the old "brutal" games but age and physical damage over the years means I have to be content with games that are easier than when I was younger.

As damaged as I am (stroke caused visual impairment and motor control issues) I have been able to complete every part of the game so far except mistlands (which I am still working on).

All that said I would rate Valheim as a third generation game as far as difficulty goes. Which first generation gamers might consider one step above casual and 6th genreation gamers consider brutal.

That would be my take on the OP.

well, 5% skill loss on death can be kinda brutal, depending on where you are in the game. I love that the game has this. Good job here devs.

When Valheim uses the word "Brutal" I perceive that as punishment that can be unfair, unreasonable or unjustified. Nothing wrong with that....you get use to it lmao...

The real question is how can IG cater to both crowds...the Survivor/Explorer and The Builder/Decorators.

Standing under a Troll while its holding a tree and you hit the dancing emote. before dissapearing in a world of dust!

ok ill bite :+)

The short version:
"What does *Brutal* mean to you?"
-Difficult

"Why do people who quit the game out of frustration (not counting bugs) want the game to change when they're getting the very experience they paid for?"
-People didnt pay for frustration, they paid for difficult. Many aspects of the game are frustrating so they quit. If it were just difficult I have a feeling many would stay.

Long version:
"What does *Brutal* mean to you?"

Im old and to me brutal is either bloody or fierce or over-the-top, like a brutal murder or a brutal defeat as in sports. I think in high school there was a time brutal was positive, like brutal rock, Iron Maiden riffs, and Dio's voice was brutal. For me to relate it to video games, only thing I can think they were going for when choosing this adjective is hard or difficult. I play alot of games and I put alot of them down when they get too hard, but Valheim I have played since release. I do not consider it brutal. Grounded frustrated me at about 50 hours and Valheim didnt, so is Grounded more brutal? 7D2D wasnt brutal at all if you played like valheim and just prepared and learned the game loop. NMS got repetitive and frustrating and I stopped playing for that reason but I never felt it's difficulty deserved brutal. I stopped playing ARK, died way too much and felt bad lowering the settings to "almost creative" mode. I would consider that brutal if you play on the default settings. If Valheim were brutal we would lose items on death, repairing would cost resources on buildings armor and weapons. When a building was destroyed you wouldnt get materials back. Terra-forming would not stop enemies.....There are actually alot of game mechanics that hold your hand.

"Why do people who quit the game out of frustration (not counting bugs) want the game to change when they're getting the very experience they paid for?"

I dont think they paid for brutal or frustration. They probably saw the concept, the promotional videos, screen shots, price, etc like I did and had high hopes. Were in the middle of covid, wanted something to do and based on Valheims initial popularity many bought it without paying attention to the word brutal. Also at this time online playing had new meaning. Many new people started because they were home more. Gaming was a way to interact with friends and family. They wanted a 10 player game. They were done with MMO's They might have expected it to be brutal, but no where in the wiki did it say frustrating. Brutal and frustrating are not related in my opinion. If you are patient, prepare, and learn how to dodgeroll, Valheim is not brutal. You can kill a troll naked dodgrolling. Where frustration comes in is subjective based on a players personal abilities and how much repetition they are fine with. Raids on single player are difficult, raids on multiplayer are frustrating. (not trying to open that can of worms here lol)

They paid for it because games these days have options and I am sure they expect at some time difficulty settings to trim it down or up to their level of fun. Things like not being ably to teleport ore does not make the game more difficult/brutal. It increases the chances for you to mess up and makes the game last longer. Many consider this frustrating and this is one of the most controversial aspects of the game. Even the devs are not all in agreement. I like the ore restriction, and I have played with no portals even. Its a beautiful world, I have alot of time to game, so to even start a no portal playthrough and know it will be a 5 month journey would be the LAST thing others would even consider, but I am doing it.

Does not being able to attack on slopes make the game brutal or frustrating?

If the Ashlands boss disabled your ability to turn your character left or look left. And you always had to move forward, right, or backwards. Would that make the fight brutal or frustrating?

This entire diatribe is just my opinion.

I would call this a troll post but I'm pretty sure you're asking this seriously. Not sure I would expect too many rational answers though, but let's see what's in the box now that you opened it.

I think the brutal is the no hand holding on what to do or how to do things. And that there's no difficulty settings, just take it on the chin and learn from your mistakes or keep dieing I spose

Originally posted by Subsonic:

I would call this a troll post but I'm pretty sure you're asking this seriously. Not sure I would expect too many rational answers though, but let's see what's in the box now that you opened it.

Thanks for pointing that out. Updated OP to explicitly call out my intentions.

Originally posted by Khalysto:

Valheim's identity (per the wiki) is one of *brutal* exploration and survival. My question is: Why do people who quit the game out of frustration (not counting bugs) want the game to change when they're getting the very experience they paid for?

Edit: This is not a troll post. I'm asking this question earnestly and appreciate any perspectives folks are willing to share.

What i understand is the the brutality comes from the exploration and achieving greater progress. I.E. mistlands are pretty super brutal until you clear them the first time.

Sailing in a boat not knowing what is what when you first start out and then some giant sea snake just wrecks your everything and it drops to the bottom of the ocean when you had no idea what to expect. Thats pretty brutal.

Or just purchasing the game and building a tiny cute little housie going to explore and you find some nice really tall pine tree's and you're like OOOOOOHHHHH MUST GO VISIT and as you do a giant troll comes out and just smacks you down and your little cute housie and when you respawn he's right there waiting.

There are some brutal things about this game but honestly, its really really not THAT serious imho.

EDIT: wanted to make mention of being all into the game and you're traversing the swamps and you see a super hot and sunny piece of land and you're like "ohh thats beautiful" and then BZZZZZZ get stung bye a beeskeeto. That is also pretty brutal.

First time running into swamp and giant 5 legged tree creature comes chasing after you that actually runs pretty fast.

First time heading to the swamp and you jump that small river to get to the swamp and some eels poison you and you go down.

First time encountering some crazy blobby things after fighting a bunch of green goblins thinking you got the hang of it and get REKT.

LOL i actually love all of this though and thats what makes it fun to me. BUT, it is pretty dang brutal. P.S. i can go on and on about experiences.

RE-EDIT EDIT: so i also want to make mention of my second crypt i explored and my 4th one ever. First crypt i was like okay cool, some skeletons and yeah i can hang. Second crypt was like OMG BLUE FREAKING GHOSTY!!! AHHH! that was an experience. 3rd crypt i was prepared for anything!! RAAAAA 4th crypt i encountered a 2 star poison skeleton. LOL :( this was extremely extremely brutal.

It should be punishing and very difficult, or at least much more customizable via server preferences in order to allow for different player experiences.

Before this play through of Valheim I was playing SCUM on a very punishing server (10x enemy spawn and enemy damage among other challenges). I enjoy severe difficulty and consequences to actions. I would love a hardcore game mode where inventory after death would decay over time: items disappear at random from the body inventory and be lost forever (for example something like every 10 minutes after death a random inventory item goes *poof*). The reason being that the high-risk means you have to be much more immersed in play decisions from food to loadout to tactics: you cant just rush an area knowing that the worst consequence from a death would be the inconvenience of recovering gear. Obviously this play style isn't for everyone, but I'd love to see something more for "hardcore" types.

On top of that I'd love a server option to disable portals.

I'd say it could be described as brutal due to the lack of handholding, so if you die, you lose stuff, and if you died in a bad spot, you're kind of screwed unless you manage to take the stuff back in a smart manner, or just running for it.

But for me the brutality comes from the amount of left clicking on rocks you'll be doing. Pretty much it.

Edit: Plus dealing with bad RNG. That's the second one e.g. barely to basically no crypts found after searching for hours. That type.