Originally posted by iD a IR i U z Z:

Except it is, The bronze equipment tier is just the most obnoxious tier of it, complete jank made to waste time, And at no point did you explain just HOW it is reasonable to smash three ingots of the same size and volume together and lose two halves of it.

You are taking 2 impure metals to make a 3rd type of metal, the simple answer is entropy, the longer answer is it's really not the thing to rage on, the even longer answer is because gameplay, all games have things like this, get over it.

Is the same in all survival games

Originally posted by gorgofdoom:

Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:

Well if you played the game more you would realize you don't need to make bronze armor. In my latest playthrough, bronze was by far my shortest tier, just made some tools and moved on.

You've hit the nail on the head, as far as describing the problem.

Bronze is pretty much useless past getting one single pickaxe, maybe a shield, and a (sub-par) boat. On top of that it's more difficult to acquire than anything but blackmetal which is just barely better than iron.

in my words; what does it actually add to the game besides an annoying 90 minute grind?

I like to complete and upgrade every tier for no death runs

Originally posted by >< V ><:

Originally posted by gorgofdoom:

in my words; How does it actually add anything to the game besides an annoying 90 minute grind?

If resources had no point, then there would be no logistics decision making in where to build a base.

If you build a base 10 miles away from your nearest copper site, then you implemented logistics decision making poorly.

That's what I see this as ultimately coming down too. You copper complainers build your base without thinking about logistics. And then complain when copper is 10 miles away and all the effort it takes to get it.

I scouted an area and found 5 copper sites in close vicinity. Did I mine these and run it all back to my base 10 miles away? No, I built a new base on the site.

This x1000.

Most of the complaints on these forums are self inflicted problems due to rushing or poor planning and tactics.

You will lose volume in any smelting operation. Bronze is particularly vulnerable being an alloy.

And this, as it happens, is how things work in Valheim.

You are under no obligation to enjoy.

The thing is that everything you are complaining about is part of the progression system. Food upgrades and armor upgrades are absolutely needed if you want to explore the next biome in relative safety,

It isn't some pointless grind that you see in a lot of games where you grind for hours for tiny rewards to finally unlock something "better" but it is just another piece of garbage.

In this game I feel rewarded for the work I do.
If there wasn't some form of progression system you could just run through the bosses in a few hours.

Originally posted by GunsForBucks:

The thing is that everything you are complaining about is part of the progression system. Food upgrades and armor upgrades are absolutely needed if you want to explore the next biome in relative safety,

It isn't some pointless grind that you see in a lot of games where you grind for hours for tiny rewards to finally unlock something "better" but it is just another piece of garbage.

In this game I feel rewarded for the work I do.
If there wasn't some form of progression system you could just run through the bosses in a few hours.

Except it is, The bronze equipment tier is just the most obnoxious tier of it, complete jank made to waste time, And at no point did you explain just HOW it is reasonable to smash three ingots of the same size and volume together and lose two halves of it.

On my first playthrough i didn't even bother getting full bronze equipment because of the absurd amount of time it would take, i went into the swamp with troll hide armor, a bronze pickaxe and a bronze mace and after 3 hours i brought something like 400 iron on my swamp outpost and had full iron gear by the end of that day, Even for the "normal" tedium of the game bronze is just ridiculous.

Gameplay balance, not realworld physics rule how crafting is done.

In a similar way, players don't have to lay down every single stone, piece of wood, or nail to build things, because doing that wouldn't be good for gameplay reasons.

Some recipe tweaking might occur later, but I wouldn't bet on it.

Originally posted by iD a IR i U z Z:

Originally posted by GunsForBucks:

The thing is that everything you are complaining about is part of the progression system. Food upgrades and armor upgrades are absolutely needed if you want to explore the next biome in relative safety,

It isn't some pointless grind that you see in a lot of games where you grind for hours for tiny rewards to finally unlock something "better" but it is just another piece of garbage.

In this game I feel rewarded for the work I do.
If there wasn't some form of progression system you could just run through the bosses in a few hours.

Except it is, The bronze equipment tier is just the most obnoxious tier of it, complete jank made to waste time, And at no point did you explain just HOW it is reasonable to smash three ingots of the same size and volume together and lose two halves of it.

On my first playthrough i didn't even bother getting full bronze equipment because of the absurd amount of time it would take, i went into the swamp with troll hide armor, a bronze pickaxe and a bronze mace and after 3 hours i brought something like 400 iron on my swamp outpost and had full iron gear by the end of that day, Even for the "normal" tedium of the game bronze is just ridiculous.

Well you are basically wrong in your thinking.

The fact is a full set of Bronze armor cost 15 bronze to make. 15 bronze is 45 smelted items.

A full set of Iron cost 60 iron to make. And you have to haul it out, While bronze is really easy to find multiple nodes close to each other to set up a base at.


I think a lot of people get confused since the point you enter the black forest your tasks increase to include farming etc. A lot more multitasking going on.

edit - add to that post H&H it is a lot more risky running troll in the swamp. You don't have the stamina and health pool you used to.

Just get mods if you are playing alone. You could take a few approaches. You could up the yields from copper deposits or furnaces. You could lower the carry weight of ores and ingots. You could make the bronze recipe less expensive.

I haven't done any of those myself though. I do the same as a lot of other people by just getting bronze tools and heading to the swamp in troll set. Copper mining is by far the most brainless part of of the game. It is so painfully uneventful.

Originally posted by iD a IR i U z Z:

Originally posted by GunsForBucks:

The thing is that everything you are complaining about is part of the progression system. Food upgrades and armor upgrades are absolutely needed if you want to explore the next biome in relative safety,

It isn't some pointless grind that you see in a lot of games where you grind for hours for tiny rewards to finally unlock something "better" but it is just another piece of garbage.

In this game I feel rewarded for the work I do.
If there wasn't some form of progression system you could just run through the bosses in a few hours.

Except it is, The bronze equipment tier is just the most obnoxious tier of it, complete jank made to waste time, And at no point did you explain just HOW it is reasonable to smash three ingots of the same size and volume together and lose two halves of it.

On my first playthrough i didn't even bother getting full bronze equipment because of the absurd amount of time it would take, i went into the swamp with troll hide armor, a bronze pickaxe and a bronze mace and after 3 hours i brought something like 400 iron on my swamp outpost and had full iron gear by the end of that day, Even for the "normal" tedium of the game bronze is just ridiculous.

Well if you played the game more you would realize you don't need to make bronze armor. In my latest playthrough, bronze was by far my shortest tier, just made some tools and moved on.

Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:

Originally posted by iD a IR i U z Z:

Except it is, The bronze equipment tier is just the most obnoxious tier of it, complete jank made to waste time, And at no point did you explain just HOW it is reasonable to smash three ingots of the same size and volume together and lose two halves of it.

On my first playthrough i didn't even bother getting full bronze equipment because of the absurd amount of time it would take, i went into the swamp with troll hide armor, a bronze pickaxe and a bronze mace and after 3 hours i brought something like 400 iron on my swamp outpost and had full iron gear by the end of that day, Even for the "normal" tedium of the game bronze is just ridiculous.

Well if you played the game more you would realize you don't need to make bronze armor. In my latest playthrough, bronze was by far my shortest tier, just made some tools and moved on.

You've hit the nail on the head, as far as describing the problem.

Bronze is pretty much useless past getting one single pickaxe, maybe a shield, and a (sub-par) boat. On top of that it's more difficult to acquire than anything but blackmetal which is just barely better than iron.

in my words; what does it actually add to the game besides an annoying 90 minute grind?

Originally posted by gorgofdoom:

Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:

Well if you played the game more you would realize you don't need to make bronze armor. In my latest playthrough, bronze was by far my shortest tier, just made some tools and moved on.

You've hit the nail on the head, as far as describing the problem.

Bronze is pretty much useless past getting one single pickaxe, maybe a shield, and a (sub-par) boat. On top of that it's more difficult to acquire than anything but blackmetal which is just barely better than iron.

in my words; what does it actually add to the game besides an annoying 90 minute grind?

More depth for people that like to unlock everything. If you don't want it don't use it, no reason to take it away from others.

Originally posted by gorgofdoom:

in my words; How does it actually add anything to the game besides an annoying 90 minute grind?

If resources had no point, then there would be no logistics decision making in where to build a base.

If you build a base 10 miles away from your nearest copper site, then you implemented logistics decision making poorly.

That's what I see this as ultimately coming down too. You copper complainers build your base without thinking about logistics. And then complain when copper is 10 miles away and all the effort it takes to get it.

I scouted an area and found 5 copper sites in close vicinity. Did I mine these and run it all back to my base 10 miles away? No, I built a new base on the site.

Originally posted by >< V ><:

Originally posted by gorgofdoom:

in my words; How does it actually add anything to the game besides an annoying 90 minute grind?

If resources had no point, then there would be no logistics decision making in where to build a base.

If you build a base 10 miles away from your nearest copper site, then you implemented logistics decision making poorly.

That's what I see this as ultimately coming down too. You copper complainers build your base without thinking about logistics. And then complain when copper is 10 miles away and all the effort it takes to get it.

I scouted an area and found 5 copper sites in close vicinity. Did I mine these and run it all back to my base 10 miles away? No, I built a new base on the site.

Exactly. Everyone wants to build a "cool castle base" somewhere near spawn and then complain that they have to schlep metals all the way there from far away lands. I build my smelters right at the site of whatever I'm mining and refine as I mine. I build a forge there too, and craft the items I want, instead of transporting ALL of the bronze back. Then I'm left with just a light load of whatever is necessary to upgrade items fully (if I don't also just build a forge cooler and anvils there too, because why not?).

Not that you need to upgrade items fully, or make bronze armor, or use a bronze pickax, or build sconces... if you don't like the grind then don't do it. You're so attached to skipping the "tedium" and getting to the "challenge", so why are you worried about min-maxing gear that's gonna be replaced in a heartbeat? You're actually choosing to do things you don't find fun, and then coming to forums to complain about how it isn't fun. You then say that you skipped bronze entirely on your first playthrough and got started on Iron instead... um, okay? Why aren't you doing that again??

Oh right, cus people who make these topics do it solely to argue and not because there's a purpose. Bigger waste of time than bronze, IMO. For what it's worth, completely digging around and under copper veins, my three friends and I were able to make all of the bronze stuff we wanted in less than 2 hours of gameplay. It's nobody else's fault you're inefficient.