After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog

The game is an inverted pyramid. At the start there is a perfect balance between the "preparatory" gameplay, and the part that most people would think is most fun, actually using the preparation to affect the world and do things (defeat bosses and feel that you are aactually progressing). The longer you play, the more time you have to spend in the preparatory phases, and the less time you'll have for the actual "doing-things" part of the gameplay. At this point in the game we are spending whole game sessions just trying to prepare for the next session where we will actually do things.

There is also a very sharp difficulty spike after you defeat the second boss. Suddenly you don't know where to go, which is fine, but what is not as fine is that all the new areas you can reach (even the intended "next" area) are full of enemies that can one-shot you even with maxed out equipment from the previous "era". Me and my mate honestly thought that there was something that we were missing when we tried to tackle the swamps and just got killed by one or two strikes (or poison) from the inhabitants, so we started travelling around
looking for the actual next intended area. The plains were just bananas, so we tried to tackle the mountains. We had an easier time than the swamp, so we thought this must be the "next" area. Then we reached the boss and fought pretty well until we got hit by one projectile and were one-shotted. We tried to sneak back to get out gear, but were one-shotted again. Then we were out of frost potions, which meant that we would have to start all over again with our equipment, and due to the inverted pyramid of time we are dealing with that would mean hours of grinding after we just had been through several hours of grinding just to attempt to tackle the mountain. At this point we decided to use the console to get our equipment back, since the other option was to just stop playing (who has time or energy for this?), which we did, but the game just feels tainted now, and I don't know if we'll even continue (it's just such an unbalanced grind). This is such a shame as well because up until after the second boss the game was a 10/10 for me.

There needs to be a MUCH softer difficulty curve between the second boss and the next area you are supposed to get into, at this point it doesn't even feel like there's any logical "next" area to go to, the difficulty goes from basically 0 to 100 immediately.

Thanks for reading my whine.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

Achivai 0 comments 0 likes

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pipo.p replied to After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog June 20, 2021 @ 8:48:23 am PDT

You can always explore and avoid enemies, perhaps? (just asking)

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Trainee-Ninja replied to After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog June 20, 2021 @ 8:53:09 am PDT

to be honest once you've come up against the bosses once and learn them, you realise there are ways to tackle them even in early game gear. Remember the bow is your very best friend and that you can use it to kite enemies or even lure 1 at a time.

The mountains are tougher because the mobs are harder and also because you can get mobbed easily. The swamps are tough because you regen less because you are always damp. But once you figure out the tactics you'll be fine.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Originally posted by Trainee-Ninja:
to be honest once you've come up against the bosses once and learn them, you realise there are ways to tackle them even in early game gear. Remember the bow is your very best friend and that you can use it to kite enemies or even lure 1 at a time.

The mountains are tougher because the mobs are harder and also because you can get mobbed easily. The swamps are tough because you regen less because you are always damp. But once you figure out the tactics you'll be fine.

I'd want to dispute this. This was the case for the first two bosses, but if just one of the ice-cones that the dragon boss fires (in a rather random pattern) hits you even with high level copper gear, you die. If one blob in the swamp poisons you for any reason, and you don't have poison resistance, you die.

I'm sure it's possible, just like it's possible to finish Dark Souls at soul level 1 (probably), but to me as the game is now it feels like there is a major oversight in the difficulty curve. The game plays smoothly and feels well-designed up until after the second boss, then when you get to the swamp it's just another level of difficulty, and you have to kite enemies for long distances, try to exploit the AI, and so on. It just feels wrong.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Boy Weevil replied to After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog June 20, 2021 @ 8:58:21 am PDT

I agree the swamps are tough. Poison resistance potions are all but necessary. You must tread slowly and carefully so as not to become surrounded by too many enemies, and make sure you are never in there come nightfall until you are better prepared. Mastering the parry timing makes a big difference too.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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branon replied to After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog June 20, 2021 @ 9:16:51 am PDT

I am really surprised you had an easier time in the mountains than the swamps, lol

My experience was not dissimilar to yours. I tackled the swamps with fully-upgraded bronze armor, and minor healing mead which I would quaff as a kind of cheap poison resistance - I hadn't discovered poison resistance mead yet!

Definitely died a few times but made it out alive with a decent pile of iron scrap, and exchanged my maxed bronze armor for some level 1 iron.

Went into the mountains biome with my shiny new iron armor and was promptly absolutely murdered by a "You are being hunted..." event. I ended up wasting a TON of frost resistance mead just running around the event area, dying a bunch while I waited for the wolves to disappear. The event lasts for 2 minutes no matter what you do.

The kicker was the mountain was right next to a plains biome, so occasionally deathsquitos would wander over and oneshot me from behind.

What I realized AFTER all of this was that you can place down campfires in the mountains to prevent freezing to death. Would have made my corpse run much easier if I'd thought to bring along some wood and rocks.

I did get my stuff back however and have returned to the swamps for the time being, they practically feel like the meadows compared to the mountains!

I'll return to the mountain when I have maxed out my iron armor...

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Kerfana replied to After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog June 20, 2021 @ 9:26:20 am PDT

well for 1 it sounds like you have not learned anything . i could go on but you will learn.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Achivai replied to After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog June 20, 2021 @ 9:27:10 am PDT

Well we didn't have any such events in our mountain run, so the only thing we had to worry about was not being sniped by wolves that come from behind before you have a chance to block. The mini-dragons were easy, and the golems (or whatever they are called) were easy to kite, so we didn't find it as difficult as the swamps where just one hit from an ooze was enough to kill at least my character, and where you were slowed down by the water, falling into deep water and having all your weapons/shields de-equipped etc etc.

I don't think my small group will continue honestly, because now I've read up a bit on the game and it seems like the grind will be even worse going up to iron and beyond. The copper/tin-grind is already really ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ long and dull for me.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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SlaktarMicke replied to After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog June 20, 2021 @ 9:42:49 am PDT

Another thing that ruined the experience was coming to the plains, getting excited over the new landscape and enemies, only to be caught by a mosquito that flies at you like a missile, one shotting you.

We thought the plains could have been the intended next area but nono.

The complete lack of interesting combat makes it very frustrating to play, I want to use my new two handed weapons and actually do some damage on the enemies but what happens is I die direcrly.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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wizard_of_woz replied to After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog June 20, 2021 @ 9:43:39 am PDT

Sounds like to me you went somewhere with out preparing. As soon as you realized you were getting poisoned you should have gone and got some poison resistence potions. Also you are probably not eating the best food you can if you are getting one spotted with max bronze gear.
I cleared the swamp with troll armor without a problem. Just need to take your time, use a shield, and prepare correctly.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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grinsekeatzchen replied to After defeating the second boss, the game goes from being 10/10 to being a slog June 20, 2021 @ 9:45:17 am PDT

Yep the learning curve in this game is quite Strange. I also found it confusing in the beginning what comes next as my first map was pretty ♥♥♥♥♥♥ up because I had Plains super close. I had to sail quite a bit for my first swamp, and I didn't know what to do with the mountains at that time.
The only thing that showed me I was wrong here was my death. Since at the time I used neither wiki, nor forum. And that's quite a deterrent, at least it was for me, which is why I concentrated for a long time on meadows and dark forest and built~ until I joined a server because it was super boring alone.
Swamp was scary at first, but we had potions and at the beginning there were always at least 2 of us which made it easy. Mountains were annoying, and Plains, fuling-camps was a pain in the ass. My friends died so often, although we tried to pull the mobs as best we could individually.

Eventually you get used to it but ... it can be exhausting and not for everyone. If I had played the game alone, I would have quit very early.

I once read that the plains are so hard, because this is atm the only "endcontent" of the game. So another attempt of the dev's wto stretch content with cheese methods.(as I said, I have only read that, can also be wrong and this strong curve is intentional)
Here in the forum probably most will say that the game is not hard enough. Another reason in my opinion, for more customization options.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:
Sounds like to me you went somewhere with out preparing. As soon as you realized you were getting poisoned you should have gone and got some poison resistence potions. Also you are probably not eating the best food you can if you are getting one spotted with max bronze gear.
I cleared the swamp with troll armor without a problem. Just need to take your time, use a shield, and prepare correctly.

We've spent entire game sessions (about ~5 hour each) just preparing. At the time we came to the swamps the first time we did not have poison resistance because we did not have the fermenter, and when we had the fermenter we instead made frost resistance and spent hours and hours maxing out our copper gear to try to tackle the mountains (which we thought might be the next area, because the swamp was so absurdly hard). We've spent more game hours preparing to play the game than we have actually playing the game.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Originally posted by Achivai:
Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:
Sounds like to me you went somewhere with out preparing. As soon as you realized you were getting poisoned you should have gone and got some poison resistence potions. Also you are probably not eating the best food you can if you are getting one spotted with max bronze gear.
I cleared the swamp with troll armor without a problem. Just need to take your time, use a shield, and prepare correctly.

We've spent entire game sessions (about ~5 hour each) just preparing. At the time we came to the swamps the first time we did not have poison resistance because we did not have the fermenter, and when we had the fermenter we instead made frost resistance and spent hours and hours maxing out our copper gear to try to tackle the mountains (which we thought might be the next area, because the swamp was so absurdly hard). We've spent more game hours preparing to play the game than we have actually playing the game.

Still doesn't explain why you are getting one shotted in the swamp.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:
Originally posted by Achivai:

We've spent entire game sessions (about ~5 hour each) just preparing. At the time we came to the swamps the first time we did not have poison resistance because we did not have the fermenter, and when we had the fermenter we instead made frost resistance and spent hours and hours maxing out our copper gear to try to tackle the mountains (which we thought might be the next area, because the swamp was so absurdly hard). We've spent more game hours preparing to play the game than we have actually playing the game.
Still doesn't explain why you are getting one shotted in the swamp.

What's there to explain? It does 70 unblockable damage, unless you have the correct brews. Kind of hard to prepare for that before you even know it's a thing, and after you know it's a thing, you might guess (like we did) that you've stepped into an area that's not intended for you to be in, since nothing else in the game at this point was even half as dangerous as the swamp. We intentionally did not read wikis while playing as to not spoil the experience.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Originally posted by Achivai:
Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:
Still doesn't explain why you are getting one shotted in the swamp.

What's there to explain? It does 70 unblockable damage, unless you have the correct brews. Kind of hard to prepare for that before you even know it's a thing, and after you know it's a thing, you might guess (like we did) that you've stepped into an area that's not intended for you to be in, since nothing else in the game at this point was even half as dangerous as the swamp. We intentionally did not read wikis while playing as to not spoil the experience.

If you are getting hit for 70 damage, that means one of two things. You don't really have all your gear updated or you ran into a 2 star creature, which is relatively rare.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:
Originally posted by Achivai:

What's there to explain? It does 70 unblockable damage, unless you have the correct brews. Kind of hard to prepare for that before you even know it's a thing, and after you know it's a thing, you might guess (like we did) that you've stepped into an area that's not intended for you to be in, since nothing else in the game at this point was even half as dangerous as the swamp. We intentionally did not read wikis while playing as to not spoil the experience.
If you are getting hit for 70 damage, that means one of two things. You don't really have all your gear updated or you ran into a 2 star creature, which is relatively rare.

I'm just quoting the wiki, says 70 unblockable poison damage for a regular ooze, and that's what I experienced in the game as well. It says that it ignores armor as well.

5:13 pm, June 20, 2021

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