Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:

Originally posted by Mharr:

Yeah, have you ever *tried* walking along the bottom of a pool? No way that should be faster than swimming. Undead not needing to breathe is fine, but they don't acknowledge the physical existence of water in any way, even their arrows act like it's not there.

You are trying to refer to realism while talking about zombies....I will let you contemplate that for a bit.

Are you trying to imply that zombies aren't real? Sacrilege!!!

Originally posted by us271934:

Excerpt from the runestone: "But pride cannot be killed entirely and the warriors who fought in that final battle will not surrender until their bodies are dust and the dust long gone. They return as Draugr, unholy walkers in ancient armour, creatures of rust and despair. Break them, bury them, let them know they are dead."

See? Right there it calls them "walkers", not "sprinters", and certainly not sprinters that enjoy some strange physical advantage that manages to elude many of the land-based creatures in the game.

Originally posted by us271934:

People's viewpoint may vary but I don't see much similarity between them and boars, deer or dwarfs.

Well, I'm not arguing that the creatures are visually similar at all; I'm arguing that there's an environmental inconsistency that I, personally, find tiresome.

~People look like people, and they walk slowly in higher water, and they swim in deep water.

~Boars don't look like people, but they walk slowly in higher water, and they swim in deep water.

~Deer don't look like people, but they walk slowly in higher water, and they swim in deep water.

~Dwarfs don't look like people, but they walk slowly in higher water, and they swim in deep water.

~Wolves don't look like people, but they walk slowly in higher water, and they swim in deep water.

~Fulings don't look like people, but they walk slowly in higher water, and they swim in deep water.

~Draugrs look more like former people than they look like boars, deer, dwarfs, Fulings, or wolves, but they don't do any of those things.

Originally posted by us271934:

For me (still in Bronze Age & dabbling around the edges of the Swamp) there is value in having to compete against the op nature of undead warriors, leeches and blobs. The Meadows and Black Forest appear to be basic training for the most part now that I've entered the transition to the next biome. I wouldn't doubt that eventually I'll shift my view and see things that were once challenges to my skill transform into challenges to my patience.

Agreed.

@Walter White Belt
The Draugrs were all killed long ago according to the lore and have obviously 'ignored' the classic rules of the physical world. After this amount of time they should appear much as the skeletons do but they seem to be able to thwart the standard mechanics of entropy by the strength of their pride alone. Given that I'll give them a pass on the water thing :-)

Maybe the Draugers are used to wade and sprint in the swamp?

It’s because they don’t swim, they simply walk on the bottom of the sea floor because they are zombies. The player is not a zombie, therefore the player’s gotta swim

I bet Drauger got 100 swim skill, bloody cheaters lol

Originally posted by Nascarman:

It’s because they don’t swim, they simply walk on the bottom of the sea floor because they are zombies. The player is not a zombie, therefore the player’s gotta swim

Yeah, have you ever *tried* walking along the bottom of a pool? No way that should be faster than swimming. Undead not needing to breathe is fine, but they don't acknowledge the physical existence of water in any way, even their arrows act like it's not there.

Draugrs have webbed toes.......

Just kidding. The real answer is the whole game is a fiction so why do people selectively pick the parts they want to be 'real world'? If you know how they behave then quit putting yourself at their mercy (of which Draugrs have none).

Originally posted by Mharr:

Originally posted by Nascarman:

It’s because they don’t swim, they simply walk on the bottom of the sea floor because they are zombies. The player is not a zombie, therefore the player’s gotta swim

Yeah, have you ever *tried* walking along the bottom of a pool? No way that should be faster than swimming. Undead not needing to breathe is fine, but they don't acknowledge the physical existence of water in any way, even their arrows act like it's not there.

I mean they could be ghost zombies…

It actually bugs me more that they can shoot their bows from under water.

Originally posted by Mharr:

Originally posted by Nascarman:

It’s because they don’t swim, they simply walk on the bottom of the sea floor because they are zombies. The player is not a zombie, therefore the player’s gotta swim

Yeah, have you ever *tried* walking along the bottom of a pool? No way that should be faster than swimming. Undead not needing to breathe is fine, but they don't acknowledge the physical existence of water in any way, even their arrows act like it's not there.

You are trying to refer to realism while talking about zombies....I will let you contemplate that for a bit.

Originally posted by us271934:

The real answer is the whole game is a fiction so why do people selectively pick the parts they want to be 'real world'?

Fair point. I do have to say, having done lots of home repairs myself, I find the idea of fixing anything in the world by vaguely swinging a hammer at it very attractive.

Really though, I don't see this general observation as especially helpful in some cases. I'm not arguing for realism per se; I'm arguing for consistency. For example, deer and boars are slowed down when they have to trudge through water, therefore I would expect that, other creatures would, too. So if I have to run through some water and it slows me down, I would expect that it would slow down what's chasing me as well (unless the thing already lives in the water, of course).

It's definitely not a deal breaker, and I don't think it's a huge deal, really. It's simply one of those rare moments in an otherwise extremely polished and very enjoyable game that makes me raise an eyebrow because of the general annoyance.

Originally posted by Walter White Belt:

Originally posted by us271934:

The real answer is the whole game is a fiction so why do people selectively pick the parts they want to be 'real world'?

Fair point. I do have to say, having done lots of home repairs myself, I find the idea of fixing anything in the world by vaguely swinging a hammer at it very attractive.

Really though, I don't see this general observation as especially helpful in some cases. I'm not arguing for realism per se; I'm arguing for consistency. For example, deer and boars are slowed down when they have to trudge through water, therefore I would expect that, other creatures would, too. So if I have to run through some water and it slows me down, I would expect that it would slow down what's chasing me as well (unless the thing already lives in the water, of course).

It's definitely not a deal breaker, and I don't think it really think it's a huge deal, really. It's simply one of those rare moments in an otherwise extremely polished and very enjoyable game that makes me raise an eyebrow because of the general annoyance.

Excerpt from the runestone: "But pride cannot be killed entirely and the warriors who fought in that final battle will not surrender until their bodies are dust and the dust long gone. They return as Draugr, unholy walkers in ancient armour, creatures of rust and despair. Break them, bury them, let them know they are dead."

People's viewpoint may vary but I don't see much similarity between them and boars, deer or dwarfs.

For me (still in Bronze Age & dabbling around the edges of the Swamp) there is value in having to compete against the op nature of undead warriors, leeches and blobs. The Meadows and Black Forest appear to be basic training for the most part now that I've entered the transition to the next biome. I wouldn't doubt that eventually I'll shift my view and see things that were once challenges to my skill transform into challenges to my patience.

Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:

You are trying to refer to realism while talking about zombies....I will let you contemplate that for a bit.

No, I'm trying to refer to verisimilitude. Fantasy doesn't mean you're not trying to simulate anything recognisable. Fire still burns, ice is slidey, and water has mass.

Originally posted by wizard_of_woz:

Originally posted by Mharr:

Yeah, have you ever *tried* walking along the bottom of a pool? No way that should be faster than swimming. Undead not needing to breathe is fine, but they don't acknowledge the physical existence of water in any way, even their arrows act like it's not there.

You are trying to refer to realism while talking about zombies....I will let you contemplate that for a bit.

That's nice! :D