"you can bait trolls into "mining" tin and copper for you)..." ?????

Originally posted by Emelio Lizardo:

"you can bait trolls into "mining" tin and copper for you)..." ?????

Yes, you can lure trolls to copper and tin deposits, and dodge their attacks. They'll end up breaking trees, rocks, deposits, etc. It's a fun way to bypass the first boss (since you'll get copper and tin to make bronze, and can make a bronze pickaxe before you are able to make the antler one), but it's not particularly efficient.

Copper is finite but if you are playing solo and fully mine out 2 nodes you will never need anymore unless you are using it in decoration etc..

It's not rare at all. If the black forest you are in is small and doesn't have much copper, rest assured that there are a whole lot more black forests out there. If you only have one node close to your base, go ahead and dig it out. Those things are huge. You will end up with a massive crater. If you have several nodes close by, then just taking the tops off will be faster because you won't be digging up all the dirt at the same time.

Originally posted by Suzaku:

Difficult to mine? Maybe if you're still using the antler pickaxe they start you with. Upgrade to a bronze pick asap to help make further mining easier.

Or ignore the bronze pickaxe, because it's not actually an upgrade. There's nothing that you can mine with a bronze pickaxe that you can't mine with the antler pickaxe, but repairing the bronze pickaxe requires a forge (which practically requires a small base to support it), where the antler pickaxe can be repaired if you have a dozen or so wood to build a workbench with a roof over it. To add insult to injury, the bronze pickaxe requires more stamina to swing than the antler pickaxe does, while only slightly decreasing the number of swings to "pop a voxel" (ie, break a chunk of copper node).

The first pickaxe after the antler pick that you should bother crafting is the iron one.

Originally posted by Suzaku:

As for rare? Nah, it's all over the place in the Black Forest. You just need to get good at spotting it and you'll see a node practically every hundred feet. And note that the majority of a copper node is underground, so dig around the entire outside to reveal it and give yourself a definitive area to work in.

No, they do not respawn, but it shouldn't be an issue with how plentiful they are.

This, on the other hand, I agree with. Wander around in the Black Forest for a few minutes, and you'll find copper deposits all over the place. Once you've found a few and learn what to look for, you'll realize they're all over the place.

You've probably been walking back and forth over a few for hours and never realized it, because other than the muted shine of the copper veins running through them, they look just like every other giant mossy rock; they literally use the same model... but the texture is a dead giveaway, once you learn to recognize it.

Copper is definitely not rare... when you are used to spotting it you will notice the black forest contains hundreds of deposits

Originally posted by umop-apisdn:

Originally posted by Suzaku:

Difficult to mine? Maybe if you're still using the antler pickaxe they start you with. Upgrade to a bronze pick asap to help make further mining easier.

Or ignore the bronze pickaxe, because it's not actually an upgrade. There's nothing that you can mine with a bronze pickaxe that you can't mine with the antler pickaxe, but repairing the bronze pickaxe requires a forge (which practically requires a small base to support it), where the antler pickaxe can be repaired if you have a dozen or so wood to build a workbench with a roof over it. To add insult to injury, the bronze pickaxe requires more stamina to swing than the antler pickaxe does, while only slightly decreasing the number of swings to "pop a voxel" (ie, break a chunk of copper node).

I wouldn't consider requiring half as many hits "slightly decreasing". That means mining twice as fast, which will get you through the bronze age much faster. Agreed that needing a forge to repair is more cumbersome than a basic workbench, but it's worth it in the end.

Originally posted by Suzaku:

I wouldn't consider requiring half as many hits "slightly decreasing". That means mining twice as fast, which will get you through the bronze age much faster. Agreed that needing a forge to repair is more cumbersome than a basic workbench, but it's worth it in the end.

I understand what you're saying, but I feel like you might be missing a factor or two in your "time-saved" calculations.

The bronze pick requires a third more stamina to swing than the antler pickaxe. The increased stamina cost per swing means you're not actually saving any time by breaking voxels in fewer swings, because you have to stop swinging and regenerate your stamina more often.

Repairing the bronze pick requires a forge, and building a forge on-site requires some not-inconsequential prep work; a forge costs coal (the kiln requires surtling cores) and refined copper (the smelter also requires surtling cores, as well as needing coal). Building a forge also requires a workbench, and actually using the forge requires that it have a roof. Given all that work, you probably want to just "pop back home" to repair your bronze pick.

If you're going home to repair your pick because you can't repair it on-site without spending half an hour setting up the facilities to do that... you're not actually saving any time there, either. If we're being entirely honest, you can probably mine half the copper deposit with the antler pick in the time spent either traveling back and forth to the nearest forge to repair the bronze pick, or setting up a forge nearby so you don't have to make the trip home.

If you're burning half the time necessary to use the antler pick to mine the deposit with the additional time required to repair the bronze pick, then the benefit of chopping the copper in half the swings is negated... and having to stop to "catch your breath" more often means that using the bronze pick is actually slower than using the "inferior" tool.

It's my impression that the bronze pick exists solely as a means of acquiring a pick without having to kill Eikthyr first (assuming you can bait trolls into "mining" tin and copper for you)... and the benefit is outweighed by the drawbacks.

TL;DR: It's faster and easier to just use the antler pick.

One thing to add, if it hasn't already been mentioned in one of those longer posts. If you that sourcing more copper is a chore, feel free to take the troll set instead of the bronze set. It is only one point behind in defence per piece compared to bronze and you don't have to take much time out of your other activities to find the materials. The materials will find you.

Also you retain more speed which is practical for everything that doesn't involve standing still. Also troll has a stealth set bonus but if you are big on opening fights with your bow you probably won't notice most of the time. You will probably want to be doing that a lot as you discover the dangers of the next biome.

Originally posted by Cooperal:

One thing to add, if it hasn't already been mentioned in one of those longer posts. If you that sourcing more copper is a chore, feel free to take the troll set instead. It is only one point behind in defence per piece and you don't have to take time out of your other activities to find the materials. The materials will find you.

Also you retain more speed which is practical for everything that doesn't involve standing still. Also troll has a stealth set bonus but if you are big on opening fights with your bow you probably won't notice most of the time. You will probably want to be doing that a lot as you discover the dangers of the next biome.

It should also be noted that you can acquire troll armor without having to mine copper in the first place. If you're clever, you can actually get copper and tin while acquiring troll hide for the armor.

The only things I bother making out of bronze any more is the bronze mace (because undead are weak to blunt), the bronze axe (because it can chop birch), and a bronze buckler (because parry is OP).

With those 3 bronze items, a finewood bow, a couple stacks of fire arrows, and a set of troll armor, the swamp is "totally do-able"... and then you've got access to iron, which makes bronze obsolete.

Edited to add: I forgot nails, because Karve... but 4 bronze makes enough nails to build a Karve, so you still only need to fully dig out one copper deposit to get enough copper to get you all the stuff you need to get to the point where you can get iron... at which point you're going to be sailing in a longboat instead of a Karve, anyway.

Bronze pick is kind of a waste unless you plan to do a lot of stone mining or something in preparation for your stonecuter. Downsides of it are needing a forge to repair, increased stamina use, and the scrap piles you mine for iron have very low health - antler clears them as fast.

Copper nodes can run pretty deep and pretty wide. What you see on the surface is nothing compared to what else is hidden. I usually get between 100 and 120 copper per copper vein.

I usually start mining by going around the surface of the copper node that I see and mining as far down as the game lets me. Then I mine underneath in a big circle and finally, come on top and mine that.

It helps me to build a workbench and campfire underneath in the pit that I'm working on so that I can repair my pick and get my rested buff.

Difficult to mine? Maybe if you're still using the antler pickaxe they start you with. Upgrade to a bronze pick asap to help make further mining easier.

As for rare? Nah, it's all over the place in the Black Forest. You just need to get good at spotting it and you'll see a node practically every hundred feet. And note that the majority of a copper node is underground, so dig around the entire outside to reveal it and give yourself a definitive area to work in.

No, they do not respawn, but it shouldn't be an issue with how plentiful they are.

If you are using the antler pick, build a work bench and put 3 walls and a roof around it on site. Its the only pick you can repair at a work bench instead of a forge. That way you won't have to go back to your base to repair it.

Build a chest or 2 and a camp fire or 2 to keep the greydwarves at bay while you mine. Mine out the node and store every thing in the chests (including the stones, you'll want them later for building when you get a stone cutter) then make how ever many trips you need to get the ore and stones back to your lodge.

When you get a few surtling cores you'll be able to build a portal and carry every thing except the ore back quickly. On the final trip dismantle every thing that you want to keep and continue on exploring for tin or more copper.

Copper is a finite material, but their is far more in a single world than one player could possibly need. Just scramble around the black forests and look for large mossy boulders that are speckled by a metallic sheen. They can sometimes be quite embedded in the ground so it might also pay to scan the floor.

The abundance and availability of certain finite materials has sometimes changed due to content updates, usually adding a new (but possibly still finite) source.