Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves.
I've played quite a few permadeath runs, it is indeed challenging but you will find yourself repeating the early part of the game many times due to stupid mistakes or just plain random 'the game hates me!' moments. One player streamed his attempts, on the 20th attempt he made it to and past the 5th boss. Frankly he was both lucky and an exceptional player.
An alternative to permadeath but in the same spirit is what I've taken to calling 'Limited Lives'. This is a house rule, self imposed and requiring a bit of self discipline. In it you start the game with 1 life, with each new Forsaken power you gain another life.
It is pretty much 'Permadeath Lite' - with the current number of biomes you could die up to four times and still win the challenge - assuming of course you only died once per new biome after the first at most.
You still need to play cautiously just like you would in true Permadeath, but in some respects is harder in that you need to prepare for possible respawn and corpse runs after loss of a life. The benefit is that you avoid a bunch of restarts and limit the number of times you need to play through Meadows and Black Forest.
I'd like to hear what others think of this, and also any things special to permadeath tyipe play that you've learned along the way, thanks!
GLHF
An alternative to permadeath but in the same spirit is what I've taken to calling 'Limited Lives'. This is a house rule, self imposed and requiring a bit of self discipline. In it you start the game with 1 life, with each new Forsaken power you gain another life.
It is pretty much 'Permadeath Lite' - with the current number of biomes you could die up to four times and still win the challenge - assuming of course you only died once per new biome after the first at most.
You still need to play cautiously just like you would in true Permadeath, but in some respects is harder in that you need to prepare for possible respawn and corpse runs after loss of a life. The benefit is that you avoid a bunch of restarts and limit the number of times you need to play through Meadows and Black Forest.
I'd like to hear what others think of this, and also any things special to permadeath tyipe play that you've learned along the way, thanks!
GLHF
5:13 pm, October 27, 2022
DirtyCry replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 28, 2022 @ 4:33:16 am PDT
The thing is.. the game is a way to easy. There are no real dangers when you know every aspect of the game.
What kills you is:
- getting surprised by 3 boars in the first 3 minutes of the game
- forgetting to eat while builiding high structures
- playing with star wolves with friends for fun
- doing paquour in the mountains for fun
- lags and disconnects on a boat
This game needs a way more challanging enemys and structures.
At moment when you do only what you have to do to finish the game there are nor real dangers.
What kills you is:
- getting surprised by 3 boars in the first 3 minutes of the game
- forgetting to eat while builiding high structures
- playing with star wolves with friends for fun
- doing paquour in the mountains for fun
- lags and disconnects on a boat
This game needs a way more challanging enemys and structures.
At moment when you do only what you have to do to finish the game there are nor real dangers.
2:13 pm, October 28, 2022
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blprice61 replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 28, 2022 @ 1:28:03 am PDT
In a permadeath run you don't want to engage in any combat that isn't overwhelmingly in your favor. Otherwise it is a fairly normal game with a heavily risk averse approach.
[edit]: and of course, given the odds, you don't want to spend a lot of time beautifying or making perfect; just want cheap, quick, and functional.
[edit]: and of course, given the odds, you don't want to spend a lot of time beautifying or making perfect; just want cheap, quick, and functional.
11:13 am, October 28, 2022
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GunsForBucks replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 28, 2022 @ 4:07:54 am PDT
I've done a lot of permadeath runs. it isn't too difficult once you get past the trees and early finewood.
The advantage now is that I have a bunch of worlds and characters at different stages of the game. I didn't delete any world or character.
So now I am going back to those worlds to bring them up to mistlands standard. It really is fun to go back with another character and "find" stuff you built. Some of these places are so many worlds ago I forgot building some stuff... most of it is "oh yeah I remember that" but some really early stuff is "wow that looks kind of odd now, I did used to build like that for a time ha ha"
Lots of fun
Edit add - I think doing no death runs has really made me appreciate how much skills make a difference.
The advantage now is that I have a bunch of worlds and characters at different stages of the game. I didn't delete any world or character.
So now I am going back to those worlds to bring them up to mistlands standard. It really is fun to go back with another character and "find" stuff you built. Some of these places are so many worlds ago I forgot building some stuff... most of it is "oh yeah I remember that" but some really early stuff is "wow that looks kind of odd now, I did used to build like that for a time ha ha"
Lots of fun
Edit add - I think doing no death runs has really made me appreciate how much skills make a difference.
11:13 am, October 28, 2022
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Faceplant8 replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 11:08:00 pm PDT
IMO, base building, aside from the necessary temporary bases, is not what you should be doing in PD. Everything else is just part of the game, and PD teaches you how to be efficient in resource gathering and figuring out what you need to survive and what you just want, for whatever reason.Get all that done, condense the game to a two hour or so experience, you'd have a pretty sick (if basic) roguelike mode. Might make for a good mod.Okay, that I might be willing to try. Losing a few hours of mostly combat-related play isn't nearly as daunting as losing however many hours of base-building and resource gathering.
Edit: I should add that permadeath, IMO, is not really a challenge. It's just a change in the (self imposed) rules of the game. It might change your playing style and shorten your game, but the game mechanics are still the same.
No maps and no portals do add additional challenge and drastically change the game. Some might consider it a grind, but it definitely changes the way you play the game and adds many more challenges. I highly recommend it to anyone how is looking for a challenge.
8:13 am, October 28, 2022
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shadain597 replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 11:48:29 pm PDT
Oh, if I were to do a permadeath run, I'd definitely avoid any sort of elaborate base-building, though you still need some stuff. And all the gathering. In the normal game, progression involves a lot of non-combat stuff. And, personally, I don't care for doing all of that, then throwing it away because of one little mistake or some bit of RNG. But, y'know, to each their own.Okay, that I might be willing to try. Losing a few hours of mostly combat-related play isn't nearly as daunting as losing however many hours of base-building and resource gathering.IMO, base building, aside from the necessary temporary bases, is not what you should be doing in PD. Everything else is just part of the game, and PD teaches you how to be efficient in resource gathering and figuring out what you need to survive and what you just want, for whatever reason.
8:13 am, October 28, 2022
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Faceplant8 replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 28, 2022 @ 12:13:51 am PDT
IMO, base building, aside from the necessary temporary bases, is not what you should be doing in PD. Everything else is just part of the game, and PD teaches you how to be efficient in resource gathering and figuring out what you need to survive and what you just want, for whatever reason.Oh, if I were to do a permadeath run, I'd definitely avoid any sort of elaborate base-building, though you still need some stuff. And all the gathering. In the normal game, progression involves a lot of non-combat stuff. And, personally, I don't care for doing all of that, then throwing it away because of one little mistake or some bit of RNG. But, y'know, to each their own.
If your main focus is combat, then, no, I don't think PD is right for you. There is alot of cutting down of trees! :-)
And then there's the Deathsquito. That's usually how I die in PD. I see the yellow grass, and, before I can turn around and run, the Deathsquitto turns me into a gravestone!
8:13 am, October 28, 2022
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bacon replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 4:44:58 pm PDT
i feel like dying is kind of already a big penalty on time, both for corpse recovery, the election to grind for backup equipment to wear when attempting corpse recovery, and the time-value of the skill loss. never really thought of this game as one which needed to be more "hardcore." the vanilla death stakes seem good to me.
if i want to challenge myself i usually just try alternate armors and weapons. like see how long far you can get in the game just wearing troll armor. or use weapons you wouldnt typically main with, like sledge hammer.
if i want to challenge myself i usually just try alternate armors and weapons. like see how long far you can get in the game just wearing troll armor. or use weapons you wouldnt typically main with, like sledge hammer.
2:13 am, October 28, 2022
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Ren replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 1:41:32 pm PDT
I like taking risks and building, so permadeath isn't really worthwhile for me. But whatever makes it fun for you!
11:13 pm, October 27, 2022
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The Big Brzezinski replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 1:49:15 pm PDT
I tend to think you'd be better off making the game much shorter if you wanna do zero respawns. Eliminate the need to build a stronghold, put gear and refined material drops on enemies and in dungeons, maybe flatten health and damage progression since you're just eating whatever you can find. Food plants and beehives would drop food instead of seeds or queen bees. Probably do away with enemy respawning in areas, so you have to keep moving to progress. To enforce haste, invasions would probably follow you around, growing more and more frequent until you eliminated the next boss.
Get all that done, condense the game to a two hour or so experience, you'd have a pretty sick (if basic) roguelike mode. Might make for a good mod.
Get all that done, condense the game to a two hour or so experience, you'd have a pretty sick (if basic) roguelike mode. Might make for a good mod.
11:13 pm, October 27, 2022
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Megahurts replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 2:05:52 pm PDT
I play permadeath, but I've been known to continue a world with a new character if I hadn't progressed too far. Still going through the motions of crafting my own gear and weapons but utilizing any structures and roads etc. that were left to me ;)
11:13 pm, October 27, 2022
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blprice61 replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 2:15:11 pm PDT
I play permadeath, but I've been known to continue a world with a new character if I hadn't progressed too far. Still going through the motions of crafting my own gear and weapons but utilizing any structures and roads etc. that were left to me ;)
That could make for a very interesting variant - permadeath character, permanent world. Heck, leave the infrastructure, supply dumps, and portals (if any) in place but require the new character(s) to make all their own equipment. Unsure if that would be a blessing or a curse as skill levels would likely suffer.
11:13 pm, October 27, 2022
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shadain597 replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 2:31:33 pm PDT
Get all that done, condense the game to a two hour or so experience, you'd have a pretty sick (if basic) roguelike mode. Might make for a good mod.Okay, that I might be willing to try. Losing a few hours of mostly combat-related play isn't nearly as daunting as losing however many hours of base-building and resource gathering.
11:13 pm, October 27, 2022
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Megahurts replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 3:14:37 pm PDT
That could make for a very interesting variant - permadeath character, permanent world. Heck, leave the infrastructure, supply dumps, and portals (if any) in place but require the new character(s) to make all their own equipment. Unsure if that would be a blessing or a curse as skill levels would likely suffer.
Heh...I 'bury' my previous character in one of those mounds and toss all his gear and any boss trophy items and most of the stash of materials...keeping a bit of food maybe ;)
You still start with zero skills so you might want to do some training before heading to the Swamp...and those nice close copper nodes in the Forest are probably gone already gone not to mention crypts in the Forest and the Swamp etc that may have already been cleared...
It's more of a penalty than 5% skill loss or whatever....and sometimes when I've got a cool seed and a nice world going, I don't want to waste it.
Flipside of that is something I've also done...keep the character going but in a new world...going in naked but with whatever skills I've earned to that point.
I don't play with any mods so playing with a bit of variety can make things interesting...or at least less boring (grindy).
11:13 pm, October 27, 2022
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shadain597 replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 12:52:42 pm PDT
Personally, I'd never do the 1-and-done permadeath runs, but I'd at least consider the limited-deaths variation if a group of friends wanted to do it. But, overall, I find the idea unnecessarily stressful for a videogame. One mistake here, some bad RNG there, and all of the sudden however many hours of fighting, gathering, farming, and building are gone.
I prefer to just play cautiously without a specific cap. I think my first playthrough with friends was about 8 deaths, about half of which were reckless corpse runs to grab my stuff. Though, if I had the added stress of limited respawns, I'd probably screw up and lose long before making it to the mountains.
But I also don't have 1k+ hours in the game, so I could see people who have played longer than me and have already built everything that could possibly interest them wanting more challenges/risks.
I prefer to just play cautiously without a specific cap. I think my first playthrough with friends was about 8 deaths, about half of which were reckless corpse runs to grab my stuff. Though, if I had the added stress of limited respawns, I'd probably screw up and lose long before making it to the mountains.
But I also don't have 1k+ hours in the game, so I could see people who have played longer than me and have already built everything that could possibly interest them wanting more challenges/risks.
8:13 pm, October 27, 2022
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Fzanco replied to Permadeath too hard? Try Limited LIves. October 27, 2022 @ 12:56:34 pm PDT
Permadeath imo is somewhat a weird challenge to want to complete. Cause all you end up doing is playing super cautiously.
My philosophy is it's a game, it's the one place you can do things without caution. The feeling of nearly dieing or being in risky situations is thrilling and what I like to experience in games. Heading right into battle and being victorious by the skin of your teeth or taking on overwhelming odds but still kicking ass is when it's at imo.
I've done some very challenging runs, no static base, no farming, no portal, no cauldron, only raft, only meadows gear and now I'm doing no map, but I've avoided permadeath for those reasons mentioned. There's consequence for death in game and that spurs my thrill on enough.
My philosophy is it's a game, it's the one place you can do things without caution. The feeling of nearly dieing or being in risky situations is thrilling and what I like to experience in games. Heading right into battle and being victorious by the skin of your teeth or taking on overwhelming odds but still kicking ass is when it's at imo.
I've done some very challenging runs, no static base, no farming, no portal, no cauldron, only raft, only meadows gear and now I'm doing no map, but I've avoided permadeath for those reasons mentioned. There's consequence for death in game and that spurs my thrill on enough.
8:13 pm, October 27, 2022
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