What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain?
This isn't intended as a complaint thread but I hope some constructive discussion could take place without exaggerations about what's 'needed' or what 'ruins the game'.
Valheim is a great early access title, but it's still a long way from being a finished game. Some balance changes can be made and I hope the game keeps improving upon the current successful formula.
This thread is not about QoL improvements or major changes of mechanics. What I'm wondering about is how people feel about the things people do to prevent and negate adversities.
Is the work bench spam around your base a good mechanic? What's the alternative?
Should trenches be a way to prevent enemy engagements? (I'm not sure if they patched out the flying drake attacks, it was a very long time since I last saw one)
Similarly to above - Lets say the player manage to climb small steps a bit better - should enemies like Fulings also be able to traverse the terrain better and become a greater threat to you and your base?
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this. I like the base building aspect and do what I can to secure the fortress and prevent attacks from being a threat by using the above exploits, and I know that many would hate to see their builds and homes being threatened by attacks.
Otoh, I feel the tricks mentioned above are fairly cheap and not due to the game design. Ultimately, I'd probably want the threat to the base being tied to the progression and the biomes. A base built in the Plains should require better materials, structure and defensive aspects compared to a starting base in the Meadows.
I don't know how integral to the overall gameplay loop attacks on your base should be. I believe it's a major part in the end, one that you perhaps could opt out of, but I hope we'll see some improvements on the attacks and the ability to defend against them.
If you can come up with other exploits - please share them.
Valheim is a great early access title, but it's still a long way from being a finished game. Some balance changes can be made and I hope the game keeps improving upon the current successful formula.
This thread is not about QoL improvements or major changes of mechanics. What I'm wondering about is how people feel about the things people do to prevent and negate adversities.
Is the work bench spam around your base a good mechanic? What's the alternative?
Should trenches be a way to prevent enemy engagements? (I'm not sure if they patched out the flying drake attacks, it was a very long time since I last saw one)
Similarly to above - Lets say the player manage to climb small steps a bit better - should enemies like Fulings also be able to traverse the terrain better and become a greater threat to you and your base?
I'm not entirely sure how I feel about this. I like the base building aspect and do what I can to secure the fortress and prevent attacks from being a threat by using the above exploits, and I know that many would hate to see their builds and homes being threatened by attacks.
Otoh, I feel the tricks mentioned above are fairly cheap and not due to the game design. Ultimately, I'd probably want the threat to the base being tied to the progression and the biomes. A base built in the Plains should require better materials, structure and defensive aspects compared to a starting base in the Meadows.
I don't know how integral to the overall gameplay loop attacks on your base should be. I believe it's a major part in the end, one that you perhaps could opt out of, but I hope we'll see some improvements on the attacks and the ability to defend against them.
If you can come up with other exploits - please share them.
2:13 pm, September 10, 2021
76561198025293846 replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 7:09:12 am PDT
I read everything you wrote and yet you never mentioned an exploit. If you are taking about a moat, how is that an exploit? That is called using logic.Combining the work bench spam, moats and the inability for enemies to climb ledges, you can effectively negate any threats on your base very easily. I believe moats should be a defensive measure, but I'm not sure it should be as effective as it is now.
I think I can call the above tricks or exploits if they're used in such a way. Normally a moat is a 'hurdle' to get through for an attacker, I'm questioning if it should be as effective at preventing attacks as it is now.
8:13 pm, September 12, 2021
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76561198025293846 replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 7:29:08 am PDT
Many people play this game for base building, why not let them enjoy the game. Like all "exploits" if you don't like it, don't use it. More a matter of self control than anything wrong with the game.How am I not letting anyone enjoying the game? If you read the OP again, I'm already discussing those aspects - people enjoying the building aspects and probably wouldn't like attacks becoming more difficult to defend against. I'm fully aware which is why I included it in the OP. This however isn't a great argument.
I believe it's safe to assume that many don't enjoy attacks on their bases regardless of potential 'exploits' or not. Forcing them to build workbenches all over and/or moats isn't a great solution. In that regard it's probably more reasonable to give them the option to opt out of these attacks altogether.
For the other group of people who want a more challenging, gamey experience - these people will of course build moats, ledges and work benches all over the place, because the attacks are still a nuisance and it's within the game to use all advantages you've got to your disposal. Doesn't mean all the mechanics are great or that their effectiveness shouldn't be balanced.
I'm quite content with how the game is now, but I know the devs will continue to improve it and this is a place where we can discuss potential improvements. If the devs have included base attacks as a core mechanic of the game (for now, it seems they have), I believe they're looking to improve upon it - the question is how? What is good now and what should be changed?
8:13 pm, September 12, 2021
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76561198054321699 replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 9:57:33 am PDT
Intentional mechanics are not exploits, example, "a moat" or anything that requires someone to go out and get materials to build such as a workbench.
2:13 am, September 12, 2021
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Lenny Rat replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 10:37:47 am PDT
They've already patched out enough "exploits" to turn me off playing. Patches since release have only subtracted from any enjoyment I could extract from this game, adding unnecessary tedium that was originally missing.Like what?
I feel a ground leveling rant coming...
8:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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Chronic213 replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 10:38:35 am PDT
Changes to the way the pick/hoe manipulated dirt was the main turn-off for me. The fact that you don't get the same amount/volume of dirt from digging a hole as it would take to fill the same hole feels off balance with the rest of the game. There was really no need to change that, IMO.They've already patched out enough "exploits" to turn me off playing. Patches since release have only subtracted from any enjoyment I could extract from this game, adding unnecessary tedium that was originally missing.Like what?
To be fair, the changes to bows haven't been made yet, but those changes are coming... and we don't even know how strong enemies in unfinished biomes will be. I don't really see the point in nerfing bows if we don't even know how effective they are (or aren't) against the last 2-3 biome's enemies. Maybe they should wait to make changes to bows?
Another patch that kinda bothered me was the tiny one that nerf'd boss statue heads talking constantly. That change itself was great and welcomed, but why not make a similarly small patch for the constant howling of tamed wolves? I have a hard time believing that the talking statues was complained about as much as the incessant wolf howling. Has that been patched yet? I haven't played in a while now.
8:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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GunsForBucks replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 10:41:21 am PDT
I like the mechanics the way they are.
If you don't want to use stuff to block spawns then don't put them up.
If you don't want to isolate yourself with a moat then don't dig one.
Why ruin the fun for other people if you lack self control?
If you don't want to use stuff to block spawns then don't put them up.
If you don't want to isolate yourself with a moat then don't dig one.
Why ruin the fun for other people if you lack self control?
8:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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Chronic213 replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 10:41:49 am PDT
Nah. Just a few points about specific patches and what was (or was not) in them.Like what?
I feel a ground leveling rant coming...
8:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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wizard_of_woz replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 7:15:08 am PDT
Many people play this game for base building, why not let them enjoy the game. Like all "exploits" if you don't like it, don't use it. More a matter of self control than anything wrong with the game.
5:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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loppantorkel replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 7:29:08 am PDT
Many people play this game for base building, why not let them enjoy the game. Like all "exploits" if you don't like it, don't use it. More a matter of self control than anything wrong with the game.How am I not letting anyone enjoying the game? If you read the OP again, I'm already discussing those aspects - people enjoying the building aspects and probably wouldn't like attacks becoming more difficult to defend against. I'm fully aware which is why I included it in the OP. This however isn't a great argument.
I believe it's safe to assume that many don't enjoy attacks on their bases regardless of potential 'exploits' or not. Forcing them to build workbenches all over and/or moats isn't a great solution. In that regard it's probably more reasonable to give them the option to opt out of these attacks altogether.
For the other group of people who want a more challenging, gamey experience - these people will of course build moats, ledges and work benches all over the place, because the attacks are still a nuisance and it's within the game to use all advantages you've got to your disposal. Doesn't mean all the mechanics are great or that their effectiveness shouldn't be balanced.
I'm quite content with how the game is now, but I know the devs will continue to improve it and this is a place where we can discuss potential improvements. If the devs have included base attacks as a core mechanic of the game (for now, it seems they have), I believe they're looking to improve upon it - the question is how? What is good now and what should be changed?
5:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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Tevirik replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 9:04:39 am PDT
In games, I hate bosses. So at first, I did not buy Valheim because I read that in order to progress it's mandatory to beat bosses.
Then I read there are some exploits to beat the Elder and the BoneMasse. So I bought the game and indeed, I could beat the Elder without to much difficulty.
So maybe the devs will make those exploits inoperant (sad for me), or they will make it possible to bypass the bosses with menu settings for those of us who mostly want to build houses and explore.
Then I read there are some exploits to beat the Elder and the BoneMasse. So I bought the game and indeed, I could beat the Elder without to much difficulty.
So maybe the devs will make those exploits inoperant (sad for me), or they will make it possible to bypass the bosses with menu settings for those of us who mostly want to build houses and explore.
5:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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Lenny Rat replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 9:07:36 am PDT
I agree that these are not exploits. Every game that has a base building mechanic also employs base defenses. The only base defenses that this game allows are 1) physical barriers or 2) you running around with a pack of wolves trying to personality kill all the attackers.
There should always be these 2 options. A passive one (barriers) and an aggressive one (fighting).
If barriers were "nerfed" somehow, then new defense capabilities would have to be provided, i.e., catapults, boiling oil pots, crossbow turrets, etc., but these things lend themselves more to multiplayer and not to solo. They must be manned and aimed; automation is a little sparse in the viking world.
There should always be these 2 options. A passive one (barriers) and an aggressive one (fighting).
If barriers were "nerfed" somehow, then new defense capabilities would have to be provided, i.e., catapults, boiling oil pots, crossbow turrets, etc., but these things lend themselves more to multiplayer and not to solo. They must be manned and aimed; automation is a little sparse in the viking world.
5:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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wizard_of_woz replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 9:09:15 am PDT
In games, I hate bosses. So at first, I did not buy Valheim because I read that in order to progress it's mandatory to beat bosses.I also hate the bosses, I just used a dev command to kill them so I could keep playing.
Then I read there are some exploits to beat the Elder and the BoneMasse. So I bought the game and indeed, I could beat the Elder without to much difficulty.
So maybe the devs will make those exploits inoperant (sad for me), or they will make it possible to bypass the bosses with menu settings for those of us who mostly want to build houses and explore.
5:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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Weaver replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 9:21:24 am PDT
Why are you spamming work benches? All Player Base Structures ( https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Player_base ) have a 20m no-spawn zone. Of course having 3 or more close to each other also allows raids.
These are not explots, they all require effort for results and are intentional mechanics.
These are not explots, they all require effort for results and are intentional mechanics.
5:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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Chronic213 replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 9:39:05 am PDT
They've already patched out enough "exploits" to turn me off playing. Patches since release have only subtracted from any enjoyment I could extract from this game, adding unnecessary tedium that was originally missing.
5:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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wizard_of_woz replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 9:55:25 am PDT
They've already patched out enough "exploits" to turn me off playing. Patches since release have only subtracted from any enjoyment I could extract from this game, adding unnecessary tedium that was originally missing.Like what?
5:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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PakaNoHida replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 9:57:33 am PDT
Intentional mechanics are not exploits, example, "a moat" or anything that requires someone to go out and get materials to build such as a workbench.
5:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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wizard_of_woz replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 6:59:47 am PDT
I read everything you wrote and yet you never mentioned an exploit. If you are taking about a moat, how is that an exploit? That is called using logic.
2:13 pm, September 10, 2021
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loppantorkel replied to What exploits and tricks should be removed during the development and which should remain? September 10, 2021 @ 7:09:12 am PDT
I read everything you wrote and yet you never mentioned an exploit. If you are taking about a moat, how is that an exploit? That is called using logic.Combining the work bench spam, moats and the inability for enemies to climb ledges, you can effectively negate any threats on your base very easily. I believe moats should be a defensive measure, but I'm not sure it should be as effective as it is now.
I think I can call the above tricks or exploits if they're used in such a way. Normally a moat is a 'hurdle' to get through for an attacker, I'm questioning if it should be as effective at preventing attacks as it is now.
2:13 pm, September 10, 2021
0 comments
0 likes