Originally posted by cracka_please:

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Raids are based on which boss(es) have been defeated in that world and not on who participated in that defeat. The boss kill is world based not player based.

I think the OP is aware that this is how it currently works. They're suggesting a different method.
Without being able to dig into the source code ourselves, it's impossible to know if it can be done without a major overhaul. Sometimes these things are simple, and sometimes they're very impractical.
I personally think it's a good idea. Let's let the developers decide if it's possible or not.

Thanks I'm glad you like the idea. I think it would make server life better! It would mean we could invite new players in and allow them to progress at their own pace while others run off into the endgame.

Originally posted by Rodos:

Unfortunately, player data does not hold that kind of information to make those kind of checks happen. AFAIK boss kills are completely tied to the world they occur in and have nothing to do with players data whatsoever.

This data already exists. Tied to each player is a data value for each game-item which has been picked up by the user. (You know that notification that pops up when you pick up a new item? This implies that there is a stored value for the player of all items which have been interacted with.) The raid system would need to check the player for whether the boss-drop item has been interacted with before selecting the raid type.

We know that a pool of "available raid types" exists at the server level because it is drawn from when the raid is initiated.

My suggestion is just to run a small function at raid time to determine the "available raid types" before smashing a level 1 meadows base with Seekers.

Originally posted by Forcedge:

There's no possible way for them to code that into the game without redoing the entire system. Raids are programmed to happen to players near a workbench.

No, they can. Game knows, who put the workbench in place.

Originally posted by thomas_1611:

Originally posted by cracka_please:

I think the OP is aware that this is how it currently works. They're suggesting a different method.
Without being able to dig into the source code ourselves, it's impossible to know if it can be done without a major overhaul. Sometimes these things are simple, and sometimes they're very impractical.
I personally think it's a good idea. Let's let the developers decide if it's possible or not.

Thanks I'm glad you like the idea. I think it would make server life better! It would mean we could invite new players in and allow them to progress at their own pace while others run off into the endgame.

Originally posted by Rodos:

Unfortunately, player data does not hold that kind of information to make those kind of checks happen. AFAIK boss kills are completely tied to the world they occur in and have nothing to do with players data whatsoever.

This data already exists. Tied to each player is a data value for each game-item which has been picked up by the user. (You know that notification that pops up when you pick up a new item? This implies that there is a stored value for the player of all items which have been interacted with.) The raid system would need to check the player for whether the boss-drop item has been interacted with before selecting the raid type.

We know that a pool of "available raid types" exists at the server level because it is drawn from when the raid is initiated.

My suggestion is just to run a small function at raid time to determine the "available raid types" before smashing a level 1 meadows base with Seekers.

This isn’t the simple fix you think it is.

First, this doesn’t work for raids with additional requirements like killing a troll or surtling (especially surtling, since their only unique drop is their trophy)

Second, this causes some issues with co-op servers where players may kill a boss in a group but not everyone touches all the loot (which is especially problematic for moder and yagluth as their drops are construction based), thus causing inconsistent raid triggers for players

Imo, any change that causes bugs or inconsistent functionality for the intended way to play (solo or group co-op) should be immediately discarded. Mods exist for this reason, so that you can play the game in an unintended way, so I doubt any changes with regards to this will happen before 1.0

Originally posted by Nascarman:

Second, this causes some issues with co-op servers where players may kill a boss in a group but not everyone touches all the loot (which is especially problematic for moder and yagluth as their drops are construction based), thus causing inconsistent raid triggers for players

Thanks for the insight, and I'll concede that tying the 'available-raid-type' to the boss loot is sloppy programmatically. The clean way to do this would be to create a new data element for each user which tracks which bosses they've participated in killing, and check that at raid time.

Unless I'm missing something, in terms of code required it really is as simple as adding a new attribute to the player's stats (ie: "bossesKilled") which sets each boss value to 'true' when the player is present for a boss death, and then instead of checking the server's "bossesKilled" element (which is already taking place) check the player's instead. We know this value already exists for the server. The game already changes such an attribute for the server when bosses are killed, which is how it is able to determine the 'available-raid-types' currently. I suggest simply moving this attribute from the server to the player.

I have some programming knowledge, but I'm certainly no expert. However, I really don't think this would be a burdensome change, programming wise.

Originally posted by thomas_1611:

Originally posted by Nascarman:

Second, this causes some issues with co-op servers where players may kill a boss in a group but not everyone touches all the loot (which is especially problematic for moder and yagluth as their drops are construction based), thus causing inconsistent raid triggers for players

Thanks for the insight, and I'll concede that tying the 'available-raid-type' to the boss loot is sloppy programmatically. The clean way to do this would be to create a new data element for each user which tracks which bosses they've participated in killing, and check that at raid time.

Unless I'm missing something, in terms of code required it really is as simple as adding a new attribute to the player's stats (ie: "bossesKilled") which sets each boss value to 'true' when the player is present for a boss death, and then instead of checking the server's "bossesKilled" element (which is already taking place) check the player's instead. We know this value already exists for the server. The game already changes such an attribute for the server when bosses are killed, which is how it is able to determine the 'available-raid-types' currently. I suggest simply moving this attribute from the server to the player.

I have some programming knowledge, but I'm certainly no expert. However, I really don't think this would be a burdensome change, programming wise.

There’s still issues with this. This still doesn’t fully fix problem 2, as players that don’t actually damage the boss (like someone prioritizing adds during the queen fight) wouldn’t be counted as killing the boss despite in the intended setting, they should be.

Also, it completely changes the way the game should work. It doesn’t make sense if when you create a new world, you still get hit by the raids corresponding to the highest boss you’ve killed. The queen should not be raiding me when eikthyr has yet to be downed in the world.

Lastly, it’s probably a lot more complicated than you think. Adding additional logic flags requires reformatting all existing character files to a new format since there is no existing field corresponding to killed bosses. How do you update this field for characters created before this proposed update?

absolutely not! but you should coordinate coop-play better with your group - or do not play as one at all.

Originally posted by Forcedge:

There's no possible way for them to code that into the game without redoing the entire system.

100% nonsense. They can do it if they want to and it´s not hard at all.

Originally posted by Humpenstilzchen:

Originally posted by Forcedge:

There's no possible way for them to code that into the game without redoing the entire system.

100% nonsense. They can do it if they want to and it´s not hard at all.

Welp. Off you go and make a mod to do it then. The code is there and waiting for you. :) You know, since it's not hard at all. Have fun! Let us know when we can grab it off Nex or Thunder. :)

Originally posted by knighttemplar1960:

Raids are based on which boss(es) have been defeated in that world and not on who participated in that defeat. The boss kill is world based not player based.

I think the OP is aware that this is how it currently works. They're suggesting a different method.
Without being able to dig into the source code ourselves, it's impossible to know if it can be done without a major overhaul. Sometimes these things are simple, and sometimes they're very impractical.
I personally think it's a good idea. Let's let the developers decide if it's possible or not.

Unfortunately, player data does not hold that kind of information to make those kind of checks happen. AFAIK boss kills are completely tied to the world they occur in and have nothing to do with players data whatsoever.

Raids are based on which boss(es) have been defeated in that world and not on who participated in that defeat. The boss kill is world based not player based.

There's no possible way for them to code that into the game without redoing the entire system. Raids are programmed to happen to players near a workbench. There's no way for the game to know the difference between a player in copper age or a player in padded armor because raids are decided based on boss kills.

If you have a server for multiple people to play on, you should never kill bosses unless it's as a group, and you must all be mindful of each other's progression and gear. If there are players who want to progress faster, they can do so without killing any bosses and triggering events. You can progress all the way to level 4 wolf armor without killing a single boss

Ugh I mean you could, but who's gonna pound swamps and mountains with a stagbreaker for that long.

It is important to know the limits of when and where each raid type can occur; the mistland tier raids no longer happen in the meadows, swamp, or mountains as of 2-3 updates ago, so I would recommend keeping ones base in the meadows and portal in/out using as portal network. Put in some Terrains walls, and you'll be super safe in a meadows base.

Excepting "you are being hunted", all raids require you to be within 40m of at least three eligible base items, when scouting for materials with a portal network, if you only ever put down a workbench and a portal, that keeps the area base items to only 2 raidable pieces, meaning you'll be free of raids when out in the field unless you're in the mountains or plains( where the wolf raid can occur).

https://valheim.fandom.com/wiki/Events

This wiki link can be invaluable in understanding the limits of raids so you can plan accordingly.

To date, the only 2 raids that can happen in all current biomes permanently. are the bats and the skeletons surprise(excepting mountains). so interestingly an eventual base in the mistlands can be one of the safest raidable zones after the queen has been killed.

...At least until ashlands come out

Thanks for the input.

Originally posted by Forcedge:

There's no possible way for them to code that into the game without redoing the entire system.

Maybe you know more than I do about how this is coded, but I don't see how the entire thing would need a re-write. If the raiding system can check for proximity to workbench, then why not also check a tag on the player which holds a 'max boss killed' attribute (or a list of each boss killed), which would in turn limit the pool of possible raid types? 'Allowed raid types' clearly is a value which is checked at raid time. Would it really be that involved to modify the function to check the player's max boss kill? Currently the raid-type pool is a server attribute, but perhaps it could be made a player attribute instead?

Originally posted by Forcedge:

If you have a server for multiple people to play on, you should never kill bosses unless it's as a group, and you must all be mindful of each other's progression and gear.

Some guys can play more than others. Some are happy to take a long time in the early stages while others want to move on and explore. The game should allow the different play styles to co-exist.