I love when the critters can attack on water, makes you act accordingly. Know the surroundings, even in the mistlands. I'm happy for sliders for folks, but making them non attack over water... ehh, to easy imo.

Losing resources in this game is not hard to get back at all in this game, I've lost countless items in water fights, unless you have mods, its easy to make another item.

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

Originally posted by sarteck:

It's really not. He was absolutely correct in saying that difficulty sliders wouldn't affect this.

"Absolutely correct"... Really reassuring to see it from another forum member with no insight whatsoever in the development.

I can however prove you wrong by showcasing an example how a slider could affect this.
Very aggressive enemies - Normal aggression - Less aggression - Less aggression&No attacking while player on death run or in water - Same as the earlier&no raids - Passive enemies - Passive even when attacked.

= A slider would be able affect enemy potency in water, which the OP is asking for. It's both a mechanic and a difficulty question. Change this mechanic and the game will be easier.

Person has one issue with the game. Solution ? = significantly change behaviour of all enemies. Sure it's a solution, but honestly it's a very vague and undesirable one. And the thing is, the threat of the situation still remains the same. If you're in water near terrain as described, and there's a seeker with you, it doesn't change the scenario. And additionally, how do you know if there's a setting for/or one that affects enemies attacking when swimming ? Your solution doesn't even exist. Making something "easier" means you can compensate by making another aspect "harder", enemy spawn rate, AI, aggression. That's how balance works.

You even acknowledge that this would make the whole game easier, which isn't even what OP was asking for.

Originally posted by John:

I once, got killed by necks while wearing full silver. I could pretty much kill anything in the game, berserkers, clearing out entire fulling camps, events, no problem. Then i was in water cause i jumped in for an item, then 4 necks followed me in the water, knockback, knockback, knockback, knockback, nothing i did could help my poor character against the relentless assault of knockback necks... i died. Being able to do nothing in water is one of the most absurd mechanics they implemented, i mean why.

Potentially if an Ocean update ever comes, they might make water based combat both on and off a boat much better. And not in a way that "makes the game super duper easy". Let the player use knives for example, where stamina drain is higher, damage and attack speed is lower. You're less effective when fighting in water, whilst also needing a specific weapon, but aren't completely defenceless. Still, with that said, a tiny rock thrown at you has enough force to move you through a body of water, completely disregarding water resistance, knocking you back even further. Which is probably what causes most of the complaints, at least for me. Or hell, add a sprint swim feature, which would help the player avoid projectiles or enemies at the risk of running out of stamina faster.

Agreed. I wish they'd let at least the knife still work while we were swimming for that Pirate vibe! Give us a reason to carry one later game (if not specialised in it!)

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

Originally posted by Sono:

I mean this is a games mechanics issue less a difficulty one, sliders wont change this.

It's both.

It's really not. He was absolutely correct in saying that difficulty sliders wouldn't affect this.

Originally posted by sarteck:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

It's both.

It's really not. He was absolutely correct in saying that difficulty sliders wouldn't affect this.

"Absolutely correct"... Really reassuring to see it from another forum member with no insight whatsoever in the development.

I can however prove you wrong by showcasing an example how a slider could affect this.
Very aggressive enemies - Normal aggression - Less aggression - Less aggression&No attacking while player on death run or in water - Same as the earlier&no raids - Passive enemies - Passive even when attacked.

= A slider would be able affect enemy potency in water, which the OP is asking for. It's both a mechanic and a difficulty question. Change this mechanic and the game will be easier.

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

Less aggression&No attacking while player on death run or in water

Let me know when that's a thing. Until then, his point stands.

I once, got killed by necks while wearing full silver. I could pretty much kill anything in the game, berserkers, clearing out entire fulling camps, events, no problem. Then i was in water cause i jumped in for an item, then 4 necks followed me in the water, knockback, knockback, knockback, knockback, nothing i did could help my poor character against the relentless assault of knockback necks... i died. Being able to do nothing in water is one of the most absurd mechanics they implemented, i mean why.

Originally posted by sarteck:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

Less aggression&No attacking while player on death run or in water

Let me know when that's a thing. Until then, his point stands.

Not sure if you're trolling or if you're unable to follow the reasoning. Read the whole discussion again if you're in the second category. Regardless, I'll leave the discussion at this.

Look, I was prepared to give you a hard time and say "just don't get wet", but yes, as someone who has ended up in the water more often than I'd like to admit, I gotta agree. The mistland terrain is heckin' awful and ending up in the water while mid-fight is incredibly annoying.

For fits and giggles I turned on cheats and started swimming to see how far I could get before the seeker turned around and gave up and how many hits that it would get in in that time. It followed me until *I* got bored and I took more hits than I could count. Definitely requires a rebalance in that respect. Otherwise as far as critters go, seekers are fairly squishy.

Originally posted by PhotriusPyrelus:

You know, if you're going to make me completely defenseless in the water *AND* make the geography of the Mistlands waters edges impossible to escape, easy to get trapped in, *MAYBE* you should make the seekers equally impotent in the water.

*MAYBE* it's a precursor and the lesson we need before we get to the lava in Ashlands...?
I mean the terrain is supposed to be this way. It's what makes this biome a step up in difficulty.

Ending up in the water with no good escape and a seeker attacking..? People complain about other creatures attacking from water since the Meadows biome. Is it a part of the calculation or should it be changed? I think it's part of the game, but sliders are coming to satisfy those who want it easier.

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

Originally posted by PhotriusPyrelus:

You know, if you're going to make me completely defenseless in the water *AND* make the geography of the Mistlands waters edges impossible to escape, easy to get trapped in, *MAYBE* you should make the seekers equally impotent in the water.

*MAYBE* it's a precursor and the lesson we need before we get to the lava in Ashlands...?
I mean the terrain is supposed to be this way. It's what makes this biome a step up in difficulty.

Ending up in the water with no good escape and a seeker attacking..? People complain about other creatures attacking from water since the Meadows biome. Is it a part of the calculation or should it be changed? I think it's part of the game, but sliders are coming to satisfy those who want it easier.

I mean this is a games mechanics issue less a difficulty one, sliders wont change this. To be frank, I don't think seekers should be able to attack in water at all, they're bugs, bugs drown when they get wet, and just not adapted to anything other than flying. (soldiers aside).

Though that's kinda beside the point, I feel like if enemies are allowed to attack with their normal damage in water, the player should have some means of using a weapon too, to encourage use of more weapons, you could make it so spears and daggers are usable in water in particular. Being able to attack in water is still dangerous thanks to constant stamina drain, but making a saving hit to save yourself from an otherwise guaranteed death would make fun stories.

The ability to recover out of a bad situation is part of survival games, That should go for being caught swimming too. Though I'd settle for a swim fast/low stamina swim potion for escapes.

Originally posted by Sono:

Originally posted by loppantorkel:

*MAYBE* it's a precursor and the lesson we need before we get to the lava in Ashlands...?
I mean the terrain is supposed to be this way. It's what makes this biome a step up in difficulty.

Ending up in the water with no good escape and a seeker attacking..? People complain about other creatures attacking from water since the Meadows biome. Is it a part of the calculation or should it be changed? I think it's part of the game, but sliders are coming to satisfy those who want it easier.

I mean this is a games mechanics issue less a difficulty one, sliders wont change this.

It's both. The game mechanics in this particular case makes the game more difficult, resulting in more deaths and people being annoyed. Either removing the death penalties, making enemies less aggressive, etc would remove much of this annoyance for those who are annoyed by it.
Changing the terrain or removing the enemy's ability to attack in water would change the game for everyone, regardless if they want it or not.

To be frank, I don't think seekers should be able to attack in water at all, they're bugs, bugs drown when they get wet, and just not adapted to anything other than flying. (soldiers aside).

This would make the game easier. Now you have to be very wary what you fight where. As for the realism part, I don't care to be frank. Should a humanoid sized insect be able to attack you in the water in the Viking afterlife..? I think it's mostly a design decision and a balancing question - should the water be feared? Is the mechanic consistent? Can the player work around this difficulty in a reasonable manner?

Though that's kinda beside the point, I feel like if enemies are allowed to attack with their normal damage in water, the player should have some means of using a weapon too, to encourage use of more weapons, you could make it so spears and daggers are usable in water in particular. Being able to attack in water is still dangerous thanks to constant stamina drain, but making a saving hit to save yourself from an otherwise guaranteed death would make fun stories.

Same as above. It's a design decision. You're an unstoppable killing force on land. In the water you're a fragile baby. How do we handle this? We fear the water, build big ships and prepare our journeys.

We also can complain about the inability to defend ourselves in the water - ask for weapon availability, less harsh punishments, etc. For many Valheim players, reducing the risks would lead to a lessened experience.
I wouldn't mind minor adjustments in different mechanics, but in most cases - these inconveniences are better resolved by making the game easier for those who wants it easier. Not by making the terrain less restrictive, changing mechanics or other general changes.

The ability to recover out of a bad situation is part of survival games, That should go for being caught swimming too. Though I'd settle for a swim fast/low stamina swim potion for escapes.

I agree that you should be able to recover in some/most bad situations. I think a swim potion would be a bad idea though. Not certain, but as I see it, it would take up an extra inventory slot for most just in case, it would reduce the risk of water significantly and wouldn't make the game more fun. Just reduce tension and minor sporadic inconvenience.

Not sure how often Buke Perries are used. I don't think it was a very good thing to introduce. Can they help you recover in a potentially bad situation? Sure, in some specific situations. Were they worth adding? Not imo. They're more adding to the bloat of the game. Unused, unnecessary drops.
As Valheim expands, I hope the devs strive to not add unnecessary things. There are mods for that.

From the day of launch I didn't like being unable to do anything useful when in water, so I was glad when mods came out. I have one that lets me use tools/weapons when in water, which is handy when fighting, and one that lets me dive and swim. I don't bother swimming much because there's nothing to really do as such, but it's handy if I need to pick something up that's sunk under the surface.

Perhaps the deep sea biome will feature diving and underwater fighting.? Seems like that would be the time to work on it.