Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws
I've tried hard to enjoy Mistlands, but I just can't ignore these obvious problems in the game, and as a fan, it's important to point these things out, so hopefully the game can get better once it gets out of EA. A lot of problems that were previously minor, become huge in this new update, due to several reasons, including:
Because of the nature of the terrain, it makes even basic traversal cumbersome and irritating. 90% of the time you're constantly jumping around, scaling these huge jagged rocks that are constantly in your way, draining your stamina. Very few times have I actually encountered open areas where you can walk around normally and enjoy yourself. Other times you're constantly surrounded by these claustrophobic rock structures. It doesn't help that everything is surrounded by mist, so you don't see where you're going.
Furthermore, when enemies attack you in Mistlands, it's even worse than before, because..
Because your character is always attacking straight ahead and you can't angle your melee attacks, you're constantly missing your swings even when in front of the enemy. Most of the time, you're fighting enemies at uneven elevation, especially in this new biome, so you keep wasting stamina on attacks that would hit, if the combat wasn't so flawed. When I see an enemy, my gaming instincts automatically make me point my camera to face them, but it makes no difference, since the character can't attack up or down. Seriously, this ♥♥♥♥ has to stop. You can't even destroy some of the Seeker eggs in the dungeons, because your character can't hit downwards ... (except with a few weapons)
When you enter dungeons in this game, they're all just a mishmash of dungeon assets thrown together with no rhyme or reason. You might come up to a long staircase inside a dungeon and your instincts tell you it's gonna lead to a treasure or something, but then it's just a random dead-end with nothing there. Would it kill you to create something handcrafted? If you don't have a person who can create handcrafted dungeon assets, then hire one and scale up the production. We know you have the money. Procedural generation is meant to be used for big outdoor areas, not indoors!
Or at the very least, automatically re-equip them once I'm out of water. Seriously, this has been consistently one of the biggest problems with this game and has to be fixed already. It's even worse now, because for some reason, you have to reload your xbow again when changing weapons/unequpping, even when you previously loaded it. If I already reloaded my crossbow, don't make me reload it again if I change weapons. It makes no sense.
At the end of the day, gameplay-wise, this update offers very little new. It's always just a few new enemies, items and procedurally generated dungeons that have no personality/identity to them whatsoever. I'm afraid that the team is losing inspiration and are just constantly recycling old ideas with new models/skins. This game needs something substantially deeper, if it's going to be successful in the future. Stop relying so much on procedural generation and make some handcrafted content. It will already make the game feel much more alive.
You gotta understand that I love this game, but as fans, we can't ignore obvious gameplay flaws and act like it's all well and good. We all want this game to get better right? Well, when these issues come up they must be talked about. Right now, the game has a lot of glaring flaws and they have to take a moment to fix all of these fundamentals, before adding new content.
Insanely jagged and uneven terrain
Because of the nature of the terrain, it makes even basic traversal cumbersome and irritating. 90% of the time you're constantly jumping around, scaling these huge jagged rocks that are constantly in your way, draining your stamina. Very few times have I actually encountered open areas where you can walk around normally and enjoy yourself. Other times you're constantly surrounded by these claustrophobic rock structures. It doesn't help that everything is surrounded by mist, so you don't see where you're going.
Furthermore, when enemies attack you in Mistlands, it's even worse than before, because..
You're unable to angle your attacks
Because your character is always attacking straight ahead and you can't angle your melee attacks, you're constantly missing your swings even when in front of the enemy. Most of the time, you're fighting enemies at uneven elevation, especially in this new biome, so you keep wasting stamina on attacks that would hit, if the combat wasn't so flawed. When I see an enemy, my gaming instincts automatically make me point my camera to face them, but it makes no difference, since the character can't attack up or down. Seriously, this ♥♥♥♥ has to stop. You can't even destroy some of the Seeker eggs in the dungeons, because your character can't hit downwards ... (except with a few weapons)
Procedural generation SUCKS for dungeons
When you enter dungeons in this game, they're all just a mishmash of dungeon assets thrown together with no rhyme or reason. You might come up to a long staircase inside a dungeon and your instincts tell you it's gonna lead to a treasure or something, but then it's just a random dead-end with nothing there. Would it kill you to create something handcrafted? If you don't have a person who can create handcrafted dungeon assets, then hire one and scale up the production. We know you have the money. Procedural generation is meant to be used for big outdoor areas, not indoors!
STOP unequipping my weapons when I enter water
Or at the very least, automatically re-equip them once I'm out of water. Seriously, this has been consistently one of the biggest problems with this game and has to be fixed already. It's even worse now, because for some reason, you have to reload your xbow again when changing weapons/unequpping, even when you previously loaded it. If I already reloaded my crossbow, don't make me reload it again if I change weapons. It makes no sense.
It's just all the same, same gameplay loop with a new skin
At the end of the day, gameplay-wise, this update offers very little new. It's always just a few new enemies, items and procedurally generated dungeons that have no personality/identity to them whatsoever. I'm afraid that the team is losing inspiration and are just constantly recycling old ideas with new models/skins. This game needs something substantially deeper, if it's going to be successful in the future. Stop relying so much on procedural generation and make some handcrafted content. It will already make the game feel much more alive.
You gotta understand that I love this game, but as fans, we can't ignore obvious gameplay flaws and act like it's all well and good. We all want this game to get better right? Well, when these issues come up they must be talked about. Right now, the game has a lot of glaring flaws and they have to take a moment to fix all of these fundamentals, before adding new content.
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
76561198014977458 replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 2:08:42 pm PST
... YES! Entering an infested mine and getting 0 Black cores should be hardcoded forbidden. Why would I even bother whit that ♥♥♥♥?! Random is only fun in confined borders...THIS! Guide the procedural generation algorithm to ensure there SOMETHING there, especially in this biome.
Well, there is, sealbreakers and royal jelly for example. Just because it isn't black cores doesn't mean it's not useful or valuable.
Or maybe they always spawn there but you (or someone else) missed them. I've always found at least one.
Yeah, all of these things are a bummer. The verticallity would be refreshing if enemies also had to pay respect to stamina or elevation.
Uh, most enemies cannot climb at all. Gjall are slow af and easy to avoid because you hear them a mile away. Seekers can fly, yes, but they cannot do that constantly. All the navigation conundrums melt away with proper food and feather fall.
It's a new, different biome for which you need to adapt. Valheim is a brutal exploration and survival game.
9:13 am, December 15, 2022
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Ares replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 2:25:08 pm PST
Valheim is a brutal exploration and survival game.https://steamcommunity.com/app/892970/discussions/0/3710433479212016328/?ctp=4#c3710433479221133575
6:13 am, December 14, 2022
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The_Soulforged replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 1:15:24 pm PST
Yeah, all of these things are a bummer. The verticallity would be refreshing if enemies also had to pay respect to stamina or elevation. It's complete bonkers they can scale slopes you can only spam jump. But virtually every mob is Reinhold Messner on crack. Just no.
The Mist/Wisp "feature". TBH it just sucks. For ♥♥♥♥♥ sake just let it disperse this Odin forsaken smog for the game session, 5 ingame days or what not. You can't even zoom out without it reassembling and blocking your view. Doom 3 was one of the unnecessary worst games in history because it had a braindead retarded vision mechanic - how about not making the same mistake?
And YES! Entering an infested mine and getting 0 Black cores should be hardcoded forbidden. Why would I even bother whit that ♥♥♥♥?! Random is only fun in confined borders...
The Mist/Wisp "feature". TBH it just sucks. For ♥♥♥♥♥ sake just let it disperse this Odin forsaken smog for the game session, 5 ingame days or what not. You can't even zoom out without it reassembling and blocking your view. Doom 3 was one of the unnecessary worst games in history because it had a braindead retarded vision mechanic - how about not making the same mistake?
And YES! Entering an infested mine and getting 0 Black cores should be hardcoded forbidden. Why would I even bother whit that ♥♥♥♥?! Random is only fun in confined borders...
12:13 am, December 14, 2022
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Goril replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 1:19:27 pm PST
I really like the game, and thanks to the devs for their effort, humour and creating this lovely game.
First and most present flaw for me: Mistlands have too much fog for my taste. First time since I play the game, I get bored and quit today because of the mist. Conceptually it's ok, but for the gameplay it's a negative. Also labouring for just to see around is not my thing, feels pointless for a game which has a very nice scenery.
Another flaw that I couldn't get over is, near shallow swamp underwater archers and leeches got united and destroys your longboat in a second. You can't hit them back. It doesn't matters how much armor and stamina you have. You're swimming but they shoot under water. I died several times because of this. It's a very hard to recover situation because you can never get close to your death area by swimming or boat. Same thing happens again and again.
First and most present flaw for me: Mistlands have too much fog for my taste. First time since I play the game, I get bored and quit today because of the mist. Conceptually it's ok, but for the gameplay it's a negative. Also labouring for just to see around is not my thing, feels pointless for a game which has a very nice scenery.
Another flaw that I couldn't get over is, near shallow swamp underwater archers and leeches got united and destroys your longboat in a second. You can't hit them back. It doesn't matters how much armor and stamina you have. You're swimming but they shoot under water. I died several times because of this. It's a very hard to recover situation because you can never get close to your death area by swimming or boat. Same thing happens again and again.
12:13 am, December 14, 2022
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-|zH|-D@sh replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 1:30:16 pm PST
... YES! Entering an infested mine and getting 0 Black cores should be hardcoded forbidden. Why would I even bother whit that ♥♥♥♥?! Random is only fun in confined borders...
12:13 am, December 14, 2022
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Soulstinger replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 1:31:22 pm PST
I am really excited for Mistlands and Valheims continuing development.
That having been said; all of these bullet points are correct. Mistlands has some deep flaws that really showcase some of the game's issues, and they tend to combine to form an overly frustrating experience compared to the rest of the game. I feel like I am fighting against the stamina mechanic more than the enemies.
That having been said; all of these bullet points are correct. Mistlands has some deep flaws that really showcase some of the game's issues, and they tend to combine to form an overly frustrating experience compared to the rest of the game. I feel like I am fighting against the stamina mechanic more than the enemies.
12:13 am, December 14, 2022
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Rhapsody replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 2:08:42 pm PST
... YES! Entering an infested mine and getting 0 Black cores should be hardcoded forbidden. Why would I even bother whit that ♥♥♥♥?! Random is only fun in confined borders...
Well, there is, sealbreakers and royal jelly for example. Just because it isn't black cores doesn't mean it's not useful or valuable.
Or maybe they always spawn there but you (or someone else) missed them. I've always found at least one.
Yeah, all of these things are a bummer. The verticallity would be refreshing if enemies also had to pay respect to stamina or elevation.
Uh, most enemies cannot climb at all. Gjall are slow af and easy to avoid because you hear them a mile away. Seekers can fly, yes, but they cannot do that constantly. All the navigation conundrums melt away with proper food and feather fall.
It's a new, different biome for which you need to adapt. Valheim is a brutal exploration and survival game.
12:13 am, December 14, 2022
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Goril replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 2:23:54 pm PST
To you, yes. Sounds like ego talking. Not everyone plays this game for brutal exploration and survival. I like it because of its balance. But everyone has their different motivations. It's not about "hey I know all the answers you have to play like this"
Well, there is, sealbreakers and royal jelly for example. Just because it isn't black cores doesn't mean it's not useful or valuable.
Or maybe they always spawn there but you (or someone else) missed them. I've always found at least one.Yeah, all of these things are a bummer. The verticallity would be refreshing if enemies also had to pay respect to stamina or elevation.
Uh, most enemies cannot climb at all. Gjall are slow af and easy to avoid because you hear them a mile away. Seekers can fly, yes, but they cannot do that constantly. All the navigation conundrums melt away with proper food and feather fall.
It's a new, different biome for which you need to adapt. Valheim is a brutal exploration and survival game.
12:13 am, December 14, 2022
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Kcin replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 11:49:27 am PST
Yea All of these comments are spot on from my experience. But the worst part about Mistlands for me is how it clearly demonstrates that Irongate doesn't actually understand what people play / enjoyed their game for. Mistlands is hard....VERY HARD and extremely unforgiving. The problem with this is its very late into the game and most players dont play Valheim for the challenge they play for the nice casual experience of exploring with friends and building a base/character together. The plains was the perfect level of challenge for this game because it was just brutal enough to have some funny interactions but just casual enough that you and some friends could have a good time.
Mistlands completely kills this element of the game. Everything is extremely deadly in the Mistlands and the terrain is down right frustrating for your average player. The average player doesn't just look at it as a challenge they look at it as annoying and not worth their time. So they quit. Like all of my group did. They just completely gave up almost instantly and nearly all of them had the same response. "its just not fun like old valhim was" "its to hard to see where you are going and everything we build gets destroyed instantly"
Mistlands is a server / game save killer. I stuck it out and found some stuff I enjoyed about the Mistlands myself. I plan on killing the boss soon and seeing what is next because i truly enjoy this game. But I don't think Mistlands current design is actually good for the game. It feels like an attempt to make it feel more like Dark Souls....but that is not the charm of Valheim and shouldnt be the goal from a design standpoint. I am all for a good challenge in Valheim but make it feel rewarding and not just completely unfair.
Mistlands completely kills this element of the game. Everything is extremely deadly in the Mistlands and the terrain is down right frustrating for your average player. The average player doesn't just look at it as a challenge they look at it as annoying and not worth their time. So they quit. Like all of my group did. They just completely gave up almost instantly and nearly all of them had the same response. "its just not fun like old valhim was" "its to hard to see where you are going and everything we build gets destroyed instantly"
Mistlands is a server / game save killer. I stuck it out and found some stuff I enjoyed about the Mistlands myself. I plan on killing the boss soon and seeing what is next because i truly enjoy this game. But I don't think Mistlands current design is actually good for the game. It feels like an attempt to make it feel more like Dark Souls....but that is not the charm of Valheim and shouldnt be the goal from a design standpoint. I am all for a good challenge in Valheim but make it feel rewarding and not just completely unfair.
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
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Bobaloui replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 12:25:39 pm PST
I don't know if the devs goal was to make a biome as unappealing as possible, but that's what they made. I love this game and i don't mind things being tough. Id like to know what they were thinking.
Mistlands is rough. No visibility, mostly elevation combat which simply doesn't work. Hopefully they'll add Z-targeting, or something similar. What's good about all these new weapons if i can hardly use them effectively?
Stamina is a constant issue, moving is an issue, fighting is an issue. The new mobs are great, i like how they operate. The dungeons are decent, i like the hidden rooms. Dverger and their settlements are good, if not a little barren. Wisp torches would be cool if anything i built lasted more than 5 minutes. The environment kills more rabbits than i ever could.
Very little room for error, one wrong move and you're dead. Wedged into the buttcrack of a mountain? Cool here's a Gjall golden shower :D
The biome ground itself should've been made more approachable, instead of these twisted crags of nonsense. If giants lived here, id expect the ground to be much flatter, but what do i know?
5/10 A lot of cool things, and a lot of lame things. If Mistlands gets some TLC, it wouldn't be hard to make it a great biome, so i'll wait and see.
Mistlands is rough. No visibility, mostly elevation combat which simply doesn't work. Hopefully they'll add Z-targeting, or something similar. What's good about all these new weapons if i can hardly use them effectively?
Stamina is a constant issue, moving is an issue, fighting is an issue. The new mobs are great, i like how they operate. The dungeons are decent, i like the hidden rooms. Dverger and their settlements are good, if not a little barren. Wisp torches would be cool if anything i built lasted more than 5 minutes. The environment kills more rabbits than i ever could.
Very little room for error, one wrong move and you're dead. Wedged into the buttcrack of a mountain? Cool here's a Gjall golden shower :D
The biome ground itself should've been made more approachable, instead of these twisted crags of nonsense. If giants lived here, id expect the ground to be much flatter, but what do i know?
5/10 A lot of cool things, and a lot of lame things. If Mistlands gets some TLC, it wouldn't be hard to make it a great biome, so i'll wait and see.
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
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OneEye replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 12:27:15 pm PST
I think the plains got too easy honesty. If the mistlands had the same difficulty it has but the mist was translucent not completely obstructive and the terrain wasn’t so drastically vertical it would be perfect. I have been humbled in mistlands but by no means would I call it hard, is it harder than the plains, yes. To me the mist is a gimmick to limit the ranged game nothing more, which is ironic since they added 4 new ranged type weapons.
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
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Quintium replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 12:30:43 pm PST
YBut the worst part about Mistlands for me is how it clearly demonstrates that Irongate doesn't actually understand what people play / enjoyed their game for. Mistlands is hard....VERY HARD and extremely unforgiving.
You are not speaking for all players. Some of us do enjoy it. And as you progress it gets easier. Please stop thinking your own opinion, on what is fun, is how everyone else thinks.
Doesn't mean you can't argue if it needs balancing. Where you should go to the suggestion forum and ask for balance. IMO Ticks needs to be dialed back and better hit boxes. But it is an Early Access game and game play balancing is hard. It takes time to adjust. A lot of times, trial and error.
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
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Sunny replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 12:33:09 pm PST
You are not speaking for all players. Some of us do enjoy it. And as you progress it gets easier. Please stop thinking your own opinion, on what is fun, is how everyone else thinks.
Seconding this.
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
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OneEye replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 12:35:18 pm PST
They didn’t say “all people” I didn’t see that anywhere. Perhaps you could give us a lesson in comprehension that I don’t see there. They said “what people” not “what all of us” or “what most of us”YBut the worst part about Mistlands for me is how it clearly demonstrates that Irongate doesn't actually understand what people play / enjoyed their game for. Mistlands is hard....VERY HARD and extremely unforgiving.
You are not speaking for all players. Some of us do enjoy it. And as you progress it gets easier. Please stop thinking your own opinion, on what is fun, is how everyone else thinks.
Doesn't mean you can't argue if it needs balancing. Where you should go to the suggestion forum and ask for balance. IMO Ticks needs to be dialed back and better hit boxes. But it is an Early Access game and game play balancing is hard. It takes time to adjust. A lot of times, trial and error.
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
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Quintium replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 12:58:42 pm PST
They didn’t say “all people” I didn’t see that anywhere. Perhaps you could give us a lesson in comprehension that I don’t see there. They said “what people” not “what all of us” or “what most of us”
You are not speaking for all players. Some of us do enjoy it. And as you progress it gets easier. Please stop thinking your own opinion, on what is fun, is how everyone else thinks.
Doesn't mean you can't argue if it needs balancing. Where you should go to the suggestion forum and ask for balance. IMO Ticks needs to be dialed back and better hit boxes. But it is an Early Access game and game play balancing is hard. It takes time to adjust. A lot of times, trial and error.
"people": "human beings in general or considered collectively." I.e. all humans. If you want to specify, then use "some people"
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
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OneEye replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 1:06:50 pm PST
Haha ok…They didn’t say “all people” I didn’t see that anywhere. Perhaps you could give us a lesson in comprehension that I don’t see there. They said “what people” not “what all of us” or “what most of us”
"people": "human beings in general or considered collectively." I.e. all human peoples. If you want to specify, then use "some people"
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
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M'Hael replied to Mistlands highlights all of Valheim's flaws December 13, 2022 @ 1:12:15 pm PST
The combat system is completely inadequate, it doesn't work on inclined terrain...at least for the player character, enemies attacks seem to have no problem landing even when off axis though. The entire new biome comprised of inclined terrain.... I really wonder sometimes, don't get me wrong, I like the game and I am still playing it...but some of you refuse to acknowledge even the most glaring flaws. There is a difference between "difficult skill based game play" and "frustration from broken game mechanics". Mistlands does a great job of highlighting how broken 2 of the most fundamental mechanics of the game really are...combat and stamina (stamina potions are a band-aid, its a fundamentally flawed system).
9:13 pm, December 13, 2022
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