Originally posted by Rhapsody:

Originally posted by ling.speed:

Its a Javelin, as it was talked about before. A few other things are just misnamed... like coal. there is no coal in valheim, there is charcoal.

Javelins are spears, but a spear that can be thrown is not necessarily a javelin, and the spears of Valheim are designed for both purposes. For coal, depending on which language and period of history we are looking or thinking of, the term can mean both charcoal and fossilized coal. For example, in the swedish language one word for actual coal is "stenkol" which means "rock coal".

As for how spears function in the game, there's little to nothing wrong with them.

That last sentence is a hot take, i agree with it, but still a hot take

As for coal, no it cannot be fossilized coal. Thats the point, it literally comes from burning live wood. Its Träkol, and i'd expect every language on earth distinguish the two things because of how important both were to old civilizations.

There is a case to be made about surtlings. But we are talking about a game, player uses charcoal a lot more and from a lot earlier. Its game design 101 to either name a thing according to its first discovery (kiln) or just have two names with same effect and slightly different icons like so many games before had.

Similar deal with Spear, we could talk details endlessly, but at the end, the way its used in game the closest common name is Javelin. In fact naming it like that would silently point out to starting player that weapons can have secondary attack. A missed opportunity really.

HA i bet this discussion happened internally too... But then the lead has a vision and wants stuff his way, which is a strong point of Valhaim anyways

Originally posted by ling.speed:

As for coal, no it cannot be fossilized coal. Thats the point, it literally comes from burning live wood. Its Träkol, and i'd expect every language on earth distinguish the two things because of how important both were to old civilizations.

You're wrong in your expectation :) In French, the word "charbon" is used both coal and charcoal. We can make a distinction ("charbon de terre" and "charbon de bois"), but we usually don't.

Or it might be a question of priorities. New content or fix a bad animation.

Originally posted by lordfadooboo:

i feel ive been misunderstood. im not really talking about whether its viable or not. im talking about the idea that given its gameplay functionality, should this really be a "spear", and not have a different model and name that would be more fitting of its functionality.

Other than the problem of terminology, pedantics, issue how language has evolved that what qualifies as spear and related concepts or variants thereof that exists in various forms all over the world throughout different eras and whatnot (and human habit of wanting to categorise everything on top of how things do not necessarily translate directly to something and problems of translating ye olde languages too), there is nothing wrong with the concept of spear itself in Valheim other than musing the concept hybrid of javelin that sacrifices some of javelin functions to work as better melee weapon was not necessarily the most common, but hardly impossible either. Same goes with the whole under\overhand problem. Both are perfectly valid means of using spears, it is really question what kind of spear it is exactly and whatnot that how suitable it is, since you sure wouldn't use a pike with one hand but you definitely could use (lighter) lance with one hand regardless is it on horseback or on foot.

I mean would you say left foot braking is invalid in motorsports just because it's not exactly something most people would use in civilian traffic?

Mechanically the issue is mostly it ironically hits worse below you than atgeir does in spite of what its animation suggests.

I also do not like the spear animations nor the way it's used in game, but there are plenty of other things that irk me with other weapons, too.

That said, it's good to discuss what you do not like about the weapons now and where they could be improved for a later date, because I assume Irongate will make a pass on all animations and weapon balance at some point when most of the biomes are done to refine them for 1.0.

Day one of launch i remember i sent a message to the devs pointing out how bad the animation was for spears compared to all the other weapons. I was naive to think they would ever fix it.

Originally posted by zaffington:

Spears are possibly the strongest weapon-type once you learn to use them correctly. No other melee weapon has the damage output or speed at close range (excluding knives)... nor does any other melee weapon have the damage and range the spear does when thrown.

I've maxed spears out several times on different chars / play-through's ... I even ran a double spear + harpoon setup once with a small shield in hotbar 1-4 slots... epic lol.

i feel ive been misunderstood. im not really talking about whether its viable or not. im talking about the idea that given its gameplay functionality, should this really be a "spear", and not have a different model and name that would be more fitting of its functionality.

Originally posted by Beatnik59:

It seems that a spear can be defined as a single handed thrusting weapon that pierces with great force forward. In this definition, the spear in Valheim is consistent.

1) It does piercing damage, not slashing or blunt damage.

2) It is most capable at the point of attack.

3) It requires only one hand to use, allowing the other arm to use a shield.

I've had great success with spears, and it's my primary weapon. But I've used the atgier also, and have found success with the atgier as well. But they are two different weapons that require two different styles.

The speed at which I can attack with the spear is better than almost anything else in my arsenal, with the exception of maybe knives. In the time I spend attacking once with the atgier, I can get two strikes in with the spear.

That's conventional attacks, not specials. The spear doesn't have the AoE special like the atgier does. But, honestly, I'd rather have the versatility of the spear rather than that AoE special for most situations. And the versatility is in two respects. First, the spear allows me to carry a buckler for defense. Atgier doesn't provide for that. Second, I have the throwing option, which I use rarely, but if I need it, it's there. You can't throw an atgier.

You make a fair point about the attack having to be lined up rather perfectly on the spear in order for it to hit. Other weapons are a lot more forgiving. But I've spend so much time on the spear, I know how to move and when to strike. Spear technique in Valheim is a very active combat style, just like atgier is.

But the weapons are different. The techniques are different. Players can have good success with either one.

well first off, by that definition a sewing needle is also a spear. but regardless, my post is not about whether the weapon called "spear" is viable in any way. but more that given how it operates within the gameplay of valheim, it doesnt function the way one would expect of a weapon called "spear". i dont really care if the spear can cause 5 million damage to all units on the map with a single click from anywhere and gives you the ability to fly like superman. this isnt about whether its good or not. it would be just as weird if you wore helmets on your hands and boots on your head regardless of in-game armor stats.

I felt this too honestly. I use BM Atgier for my spear needs and dont really touch the spear unless i make a bunch to throw for fun. Atgier hits like a truck and im usually surrounded my mobs so the special is useful to get some breathing room. Spear is good for 1v1 imo.

Spears are possibly the strongest weapon-type once you learn to use them correctly. No other melee weapon has the damage output or speed at close range (excluding knives)... nor does any other melee weapon have the damage and range the spear does when thrown.

I've maxed spears out several times on different chars / play-through's ... I even ran a double spear + harpoon setup once with a small shield in hotbar 1-4 slots... epic lol.

Originally posted by lordfadooboo:

i know this has been talked about before

but it seems like the devs wanted more to make a throwing knife?

Its a Javelin, as it was talked about before. A few other things are just misnamed... like coal. there is no coal in valheim, there is charcoal.

Problem with spear is that just like in real life it would be quite an OP weapon. So we get its two cousins.

Originally posted by ling.speed:

Originally posted by lordfadooboo:

i know this has been talked about before

but it seems like the devs wanted more to make a throwing knife?

Its a Javelin, as it was talked about before. A few other things are just misnamed... like coal. there is no coal in valheim, there is charcoal.

Javelins are spears, but a spear that can be thrown is not necessarily a javelin, and the spears of Valheim are designed for both purposes. For coal, depending on which language and period of history we are looking or thinking of, the term can mean both charcoal and fossilized coal. For example, in the swedish language one word for actual coal is "stenkol" which means "rock coal".

As for how spears function in the game, there's little to nothing wrong with them.

I just hate their swing animation.

They're all spears.

Polearms, Billhooks, Guisarme', Pikes, Yari, Pilums, Javelins, Dorys, etc... or even more exotic like a Naginata.

All just different types of spear, 2 main types, lighter shorter one handed can be thrown (skirmishers) or heavier longer 2 handed (medium - heavy infantry)

It seems that a spear can be defined as a single handed thrusting weapon that pierces with great force forward. In this definition, the spear in Valheim is consistent.

1) It does piercing damage, not slashing or blunt damage.

2) It is most capable at the point of attack.

3) It requires only one hand to use, allowing the other arm to use a shield.

I've had great success with spears, and it's my primary weapon. But I've used the atgier also, and have found success with the atgier as well. But they are two different weapons that require two different styles.

The speed at which I can attack with the spear is better than almost anything else in my arsenal, with the exception of maybe knives. In the time I spend attacking once with the atgier, I can get two strikes in with the spear.

That's conventional attacks, not specials. The spear doesn't have the AoE special like the atgier does. But, honestly, I'd rather have the versatility of the spear rather than that AoE special for most situations. And the versatility is in two respects. First, the spear allows me to carry a buckler for defense. Atgier doesn't provide for that. Second, I have the throwing option, which I use rarely, but if I need it, it's there. You can't throw an atgier.

You make a fair point about the attack having to be lined up rather perfectly on the spear in order for it to hit. Other weapons are a lot more forgiving. But I've spend so much time on the spear, I know how to move and when to strike. Spear technique in Valheim is a very active combat style, just like atgier is.

But the weapons are different. The techniques are different. Players can have good success with either one.