It isn't what it was.
When this game first came out, I was amazed at how good it was. My review was a massively positive, gushing fanboy post, completely ignoring a lot of the game issues because I liked it so well. I talked the game up to my clan, hosted up and maintained a server on my dime, and played it to the end many times. In those days, the end itself was one of those little issues I ignored, because it was underwhelming. Over time, of course, we went on to other things, played it less, and I pulled the server down. I then uninstalled the game so that when the Mystlands came out, it'd feel completely new. I just recently reinstalled it, have now played it for many additional hours, and feel an urgent need to change my original review. I'll do that today.
Why?
Because it has become just like every other survival game: grind for the sake of grind. Instead of coming up with new ways to use the loot that dropped, they have cut back on the loot. That's not a good idea, because it punishes new players. I never liked the food/health system before, and I don't like it now. But the worst thing of all is the stamina nerfs. It's the worst idea I've seen in a while, and I've seen a mountain of generally bad ideas. You realize a beginning player can't swim more than 10' from shore because they'll never make it back? You can't run more than a few steps. It needs to be fixed NOW. You took an excellent exploration game, and turned it into everything else. Thanks for making me a geriatric viking farmer. "Your hand remembers the weight of your father's hoe, and you awake with your farmer cry on your lips 'It's almost harvest season!'" Never have I felt so much like a peasant instead of a warrior. So. The descendants of people who went viking made a game so they could pretend to be vikings, and then nerfed it into a farming simulator... which is exactly what happened to the real vikings. Just wow. You don't have to be lonely, at vikings only dot com.
I still love the world. I love sneaking 25' through the trees.... and then I run out of stamina and have to stop. I love sailing... as long as I don't have to go into the water. I love exploring. But I can't post this up to a server anymore; as soon as I do, I'm going to be hammered by requests to install mods to fix the things that have been wrecked.
I guess it's mod it or uninstall it, huh?
Why?
Because it has become just like every other survival game: grind for the sake of grind. Instead of coming up with new ways to use the loot that dropped, they have cut back on the loot. That's not a good idea, because it punishes new players. I never liked the food/health system before, and I don't like it now. But the worst thing of all is the stamina nerfs. It's the worst idea I've seen in a while, and I've seen a mountain of generally bad ideas. You realize a beginning player can't swim more than 10' from shore because they'll never make it back? You can't run more than a few steps. It needs to be fixed NOW. You took an excellent exploration game, and turned it into everything else. Thanks for making me a geriatric viking farmer. "Your hand remembers the weight of your father's hoe, and you awake with your farmer cry on your lips 'It's almost harvest season!'" Never have I felt so much like a peasant instead of a warrior. So. The descendants of people who went viking made a game so they could pretend to be vikings, and then nerfed it into a farming simulator... which is exactly what happened to the real vikings. Just wow. You don't have to be lonely, at vikings only dot com.
I still love the world. I love sneaking 25' through the trees.... and then I run out of stamina and have to stop. I love sailing... as long as I don't have to go into the water. I love exploring. But I can't post this up to a server anymore; as soon as I do, I'm going to be hammered by requests to install mods to fix the things that have been wrecked.
I guess it's mod it or uninstall it, huh?
3:13 pm, December 11, 2022
jrc replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 12:20:02 pm PST
Mining silver does not take "all of 10 minutes." LOL. That's just not at all right. It's grindy. The way Ark was grindy, the way Ylands is grindy, the way Rust is grindy, the way Empyrion is grindy, the way every survival game is grindy because making a game grindy is the easiest thing to do.
And please, let's knock off the "this is not the game for you" comments. You are trying to dismiss a poster after posting up incorrect information simply because you don't like what was said. Things NEED to be said. NOW.
I mean, are you seriously going to argue that the game isn't grindy enough? Shouldn't we encourage the developer to limit the grind? Aren't there other ways to perform level progression?
We should be able to hire dwarves. I didn't actually need to say that.
And please, let's knock off the "this is not the game for you" comments. You are trying to dismiss a poster after posting up incorrect information simply because you don't like what was said. Things NEED to be said. NOW.
I mean, are you seriously going to argue that the game isn't grindy enough? Shouldn't we encourage the developer to limit the grind? Aren't there other ways to perform level progression?
We should be able to hire dwarves. I didn't actually need to say that.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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Faceplant8 replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 12:24:00 pm PST
Mining silver does not take "all of 10 minutes." LOL. That's just not at all right. It's grindy. The way Ark was grindy, the way Ylands is grindy, the way Rust is grindy, the way Empyrion is grindy, the way every survival game is grindy because making a game grindy is the easiest thing to do.
We should be able to hire dwarves.
I just did it an hour or so ago. I mined a whole vein for 100ish silver ore in one day, which is 20 minutes, so 40 ore took less than 10 minutes.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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zverozvero replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 12:26:47 pm PST
Mod it. Look something up for skill level headstart or extra stamina/regen and it should be allright. I play again after pause too but i started first when those food and stamina stuff was allready like that. Old character with 60-70 in movement and 40-50 in gathering using different weapons now so 10-20 in those and naked but with 'belt' increasing max weight caried over. Its better experience overall. Runing and mining/chopping is not as bad and fighting early mobs with low leveled weapons is fine. Swimming like brick still cause it wasnt leveled.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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jrc replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 12:29:52 pm PST
@Face: Sorry, but I seriously doubt your recollection of the event. My mates and I (4 of us) hammered away at a deposit for the better part of 20 actual, and didn't get it all... because of those little buried chunks. Additionally, finding 100 silver in a deposit is rare, if it actually occurred. I can't remember ever actually finding that much, but perhaps they've changed it.
We could pay the dwarves with mead (how to get rid of all that extra mead).
We could pay the dwarves with mead (how to get rid of all that extra mead).
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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Lumpy283 replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 7:21:25 am PST
This is pretty scathing, good thing it is purely an opinion. It sounds like you don't like the game. I do still (actually only gotten better for me) I guess tastes exist and your opinion is just that, I would stay uninstall or don't post sounds good. I am not saying everyone will like the game but I also didn't spend two paragraphs gate keeping my opinion.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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OmegaFreak01 replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 11:14:32 am PST
I'm with you on the grind for sake of grind. I'm not fan of unlocking item x because it lets you unlock item y which in turn lets you get z and that's it's only purpose. That's coming from a guy who has 1000's of hours in factory building games.
I'm choping it up to early access and how they want to cater the player base by adding content that they will experience rather than them going back to the begining of the game and re polishing how it feels.
Grind for the sake of grinding versus a nice difficulty and progression system is a very fine balance to hit. Especially since everyone is different and sensititive to these issues in different ways. Some people can just grind for the sake up making a number go up and that's the reward, others needs those numbers to translate into some new action, number goes up is just the path to cool thing x.
But these type of things don't really get addressed until the final sweap of the game once all the features are in.
I'm choping it up to early access and how they want to cater the player base by adding content that they will experience rather than them going back to the begining of the game and re polishing how it feels.
Grind for the sake of grinding versus a nice difficulty and progression system is a very fine balance to hit. Especially since everyone is different and sensititive to these issues in different ways. Some people can just grind for the sake up making a number go up and that's the reward, others needs those numbers to translate into some new action, number goes up is just the path to cool thing x.
But these type of things don't really get addressed until the final sweap of the game once all the features are in.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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ThickShaft replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 11:27:08 am PST
Stamina foods exist for a reason OP. If you don't like that survival games are grindy thats completely fine. But if you're having that much trouble with the stamina your skills are low level and you're not eating properly.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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Foxglovez replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 11:28:02 am PST
It feels like they have tightened up the parry timing and level at which it is effective. Frankly, when the game first came out, though it was described as a brutal survival game, it was a bit gentler than that. We could get away with a lot more stupid. As one would expect in an EA game, this did not go by unnoticed by the dev team and some more god-like skills, armor, weapons and particularly food, have been changed to bring a little bit more of the brutal aspect back.
The Black Forest is now loaded with trolls, the nights in the Meadows are like Black Friday sale at major big box store and the new Mistlands might as well be called Deathly Isles. There's a lot to like about the ongoing changes in this EA game, but it is way different than when it first came out.
I wrote the above for another post but I think it applies to this one too. The game is evolving and it may never have been the intention of the devs for it to be a game for the masses. A lot of the issues would be moot if and or when they add levels of play. At the moment though there is only one Valheim and it is a bit rougher than it used to be. Fun for some, not so much for others.
The Black Forest is now loaded with trolls, the nights in the Meadows are like Black Friday sale at major big box store and the new Mistlands might as well be called Deathly Isles. There's a lot to like about the ongoing changes in this EA game, but it is way different than when it first came out.
I wrote the above for another post but I think it applies to this one too. The game is evolving and it may never have been the intention of the devs for it to be a game for the masses. A lot of the issues would be moot if and or when they add levels of play. At the moment though there is only one Valheim and it is a bit rougher than it used to be. Fun for some, not so much for others.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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StrayWolf replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 11:36:12 am PST
I've just passed my first 50 hours in the game. Killed the first boss at the 19 hour point. Have a forge etc but I find the mining operations a tedious chore. I don't yet farm nor do I raise boars or what-not.
Exploration is a chore even though I have some portals setup. I like the game but I see the devs pushing towards a more co-operative endeavor and trying to grind this solo is very tough.
I'll keep pushing forward but eventually the grind will grind me down and I can see myself playing less of it which is a bloody shame since the game has such potential.
Exploration is a chore even though I have some portals setup. I like the game but I see the devs pushing towards a more co-operative endeavor and trying to grind this solo is very tough.
I'll keep pushing forward but eventually the grind will grind me down and I can see myself playing less of it which is a bloody shame since the game has such potential.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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jrc replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 11:44:59 am PST
You know, I've got nearly 900 hours in game. I'm not some new player that tried it out and got bashed. I'm a returning older player that came back and was severely disappointed with what has been done. And it isn't just me. When they started playing around with the stamina, the mods started popping up on Nexus. At one point, I'm told there were 8 mods that basically did the same thing. IMO, that's a huge freaking hint that something isn't right. A brutal survival game? LOL. I always loved that classification.
When you start a new player, you have access to exactly 2 sources of stamina: berries and honey, with honey giving you the biggest boost. And the boost they give is largely ineffective because of the drain rate and the low points. For meat, you have deer, boar, and those amphibious things to eat. Forget the fish, because even if you find them, you can't cook them. The issue with those has always been that the boost starts to wear off long before the food vanishes. There's no reason it should be flashing replace with half the time still to go, but that's what it's doing. Again, IMO, something is wrong. IMO, it should have been left alone.
You want to be a farmer? Go play a farming simulator, is my advice. Frankly, when I play a viking game, I'm in it to viking. As to posting my opinion, and someone's foolish suggestion not to post. Are you suggesting I don't have the right to express my opinion after all the time I've put into the game? Seriously? You'd go there?
An opinion is just that, an opinion. And mine is as valid as any other.
But hey, at least they took the time and effort in EA to make the fish jump. Yeah, that was important.
Stamina foods exist for a reason OP. If you don't like that survival games are grindy thats completely fine. But if you're having that much trouble with the stamina your skills are low level and you're not eating properly.
When you start a new player, you have access to exactly 2 sources of stamina: berries and honey, with honey giving you the biggest boost. And the boost they give is largely ineffective because of the drain rate and the low points. For meat, you have deer, boar, and those amphibious things to eat. Forget the fish, because even if you find them, you can't cook them. The issue with those has always been that the boost starts to wear off long before the food vanishes. There's no reason it should be flashing replace with half the time still to go, but that's what it's doing. Again, IMO, something is wrong. IMO, it should have been left alone.
You want to be a farmer? Go play a farming simulator, is my advice. Frankly, when I play a viking game, I'm in it to viking. As to posting my opinion, and someone's foolish suggestion not to post. Are you suggesting I don't have the right to express my opinion after all the time I've put into the game? Seriously? You'd go there?
An opinion is just that, an opinion. And mine is as valid as any other.
But hey, at least they took the time and effort in EA to make the fish jump. Yeah, that was important.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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Faceplant8 replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 11:48:13 am PST
Grind for the sake of grinding versus a nice difficulty and progression system is a very fine balance to hit. Especially since everyone is different and sensititive to these issues in different ways. Some people can just grind for the sake up making a number go up and that's the reward, others needs those numbers to translate into some new action, number goes up is just the path to cool thing x.
I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think (for the most part) that is applies to this game. The only thing I can think of in the game that is grinding to "just make a number go up" is skill level, which I totally ignore because, for the most part, it is just making a number go up.
You probably need to grind to increase your armor quality to survive, but you have complete freedom in how and how much you do that. I always skip leather, and sometimes skip iron. Iron or silver is enough for plains. I haven't hit Mistlands yet, but it sounds difficult, so I'm sure I'll fully upgrade before then.
One guy a while back was trying to complete the game (though plains) on just meadows gear/items. I don't know if he did it, but last I saw he was trying to defeat Yagluth.
There are very few things in this game that require a linear progression. It's difficult to unlock iron items without defeating The Elder, for instance, and it's not possible to unlock most things in the plains without defeating Moder, but, other than that you can do what you want when you want.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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jrc replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 12:00:18 pm PST
@Not: flagged for personal insults. You can't argue the topic, so you go after the poster, huh?
On another matter:
A lot of us chose to run the plains in the Troll gear. Good for the stamina (even back in the day), and you could sneak in a check a place out before raiding it. Plus, if you had to run... yeah, you could do that.
You know, the game as it is right now reminds me of Ylands. That was going to be the next greatest thing, but they put a cash shop in the EA and things went down hill from there. It's free to play, of course.
The biggest difference between other survival games and this one right now? You can't craft a fishing pole. That about sums the whole issue up for me.
On another matter:
A lot of us chose to run the plains in the Troll gear. Good for the stamina (even back in the day), and you could sneak in a check a place out before raiding it. Plus, if you had to run... yeah, you could do that.
You know, the game as it is right now reminds me of Ylands. That was going to be the next greatest thing, but they put a cash shop in the EA and things went down hill from there. It's free to play, of course.
The biggest difference between other survival games and this one right now? You can't craft a fishing pole. That about sums the whole issue up for me.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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Crimson replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 12:07:21 pm PST
What's funny about these type of posts is that tomorrow we'll get another person ranting about how they haven't changed a thing since the game was released other than add a few building pieces.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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NIPPLE SALADS! replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 12:07:44 pm PST
Grind for the sake of grinding versus a nice difficulty and progression system is a very fine balance to hit. Especially since everyone is different and sensititive to these issues in different ways. Some people can just grind for the sake up making a number go up and that's the reward, others needs those numbers to translate into some new action, number goes up is just the path to cool thing x.
I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think (for the most part) that is applies to this game. The only thing I can think of in the game that is grinding to "just make a number go up" is skill level, which I totally ignore because, for the most part, it is just making a number go up.
It takes forty silver to make a single sword. that's the definition of pointless grind, plus the damage jump from one fully upgraded tier to an unupgraded higher tier is like, 3 damage.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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Faceplant8 replied to It isn't what it was. December 11, 2022 @ 12:14:58 pm PST
I agree with what you're saying, but I don't think (for the most part) that is applies to this game. The only thing I can think of in the game that is grinding to "just make a number go up" is skill level, which I totally ignore because, for the most part, it is just making a number go up.
It takes forty silver to make a single sword. that's the definition of pointless grind
So, don't do it if you don't want the sword. There are plenty of weapons that are easier to make.
Also, it is not a pointless grind. It's the game. The act of mining the siver takes all of 10 minutes. All the other steps of finding it, surviving the cold, wolf attacks, stone golems, etc are the game. If you don't like that, then this is not a game for you.
9:13 pm, December 11, 2022
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