The shields are just broken...

Before HnH I never used tower shields, I just parried my way through the entire game.
After HnH reading about weapon balancing and the new stagger mechanic I've been switching between tower shields and bucklers trying to see which is better but so far I haven't been able to really tell.

I just tested the bronze buckler and bone shield against a troll and I got staggered in 2 hits with the bone shield, while easily parrying the troll with the bronze buckler the stats of which are all worse.

And this is in the same fight mind you, with the same armor and same food. Deer meat, boar meat and boar jerky.

Are the tower shields just useless?

The stats on the bone shield are all better than the bronze buckler.

Block armor: 38 to 22
Block force: 105!! to 30

Yet I got staggered in two hits with the bone shield.

I got my first iron in HnH today and didn't make a decision yet on whether to build an iron tower shield ( or keep the bone shield which is almost identical ) or just keep using the bucklers that I like and this test pretty much sealed it.

Tower shields may be better for big groups but parrying is so much better, it doesn't stagger you like a tower shield does and you get the parry bonus.

Wasn't HnH supposed to balance the shields?
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Lucidess replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:05:26 am PDT

I think it depends on your current max hp and stamina level too, but even then the Shield should still be doing most of the work.. It's possible to parry a Brute with a Club with no Block skill, it's madness I tell you.
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Misan replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:07:55 am PDT

Originally posted by Lucidess:
I think it depends on your current max hp and stamina level too, but even then the Shield should still be doing most of the work.. It's possible to parry a Brute with a Club with no Block skill, it's madness I tell you.

It does but I tested both with full stam and HP.

I really don't like the new mechanic where your HP decides your blocking more than stamina.
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Lucidess replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:11:00 am PDT

The only way i've been able to deal with a Troll now is to eat Stamina Food and Dodge roll into him every time he swings. Don't be afraid and you'll take them down just fine. A knife in their back works great too, but they get pissed and will attack almost right away, but you will still have time to dodge.

As for fulings, i'm not sure what to do about them yet, other than ranged attacks for days.
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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blankitosonic replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:17:24 am PDT

Bronce buckler are only for parrying +fast combos , thats why the poor block force to engage next you parry an enemy , and parry bonus its 2.5 so you can block 70 with lvl 3 , trolls have that damage and some more using the log as club
And best food for black forest are ,deer stew , meat souce and cooked fish if you want full hp buil ( take off deer stew and use carrot soup if you want some more stamina )
Irom bucklet blocks 100 and after that silver round shield 107 , black metal 135
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Misan replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:23:08 am PDT

Originally posted by blankitosonic:
Bronce buckler are only for parrying +fast combos , thats why the poor block force to engage next you parry an enemy , and parry bonus its 2.5 so you can block 70 with lvl 3 , trolls have that damage and some more using the log as club
And best food for black forest are ,deer stew , meat souce and cooked fish if you want full hp buil ( take off deer stew and use carrot soup if you want some more stamina )
Irom bucklet blocks 100 and after that silver round shield 107 , black metal 135

I know that bucklers are for parrying and counter-attacks, but it should be that much easier than a bone shield with vastly better stats.

Parrying staggers you way less than blocking with a huge shield, that is just not right.

I've been wondering when I unlock all the sausages and sht, I've been living on Deer Meat, Boar Meat and Boar Jerky all this time but I guess I need to grow some carrots etc. to unlock better food in HnH.

5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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blankitosonic replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:30:49 am PDT

Thats the buff that tower shields got in HnH , huge block armor( power ) to take raw damage and big block force to take distance
Before tower shields just sucks im everything , thats why devs rework and balance them
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Qverdone replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:36:35 am PDT

Block force has nothing to do with blocking power. It's just how much an attacker gets knocked back.

When you parry you get parry value x block armor. So your buckler actually has more block armor than the tower shield during the duration of the parry. The amount of stamina used blocking is based on the % of block armor used.

You can use a tower shield to turtle but just not against heavy hitting enemies for long. It's unfair to judge the tower shields innate blocking ability against the bucklers small window of strength and in only one scenario.

Parry is probably still op, but they won't be able to tone it down without causing a bunch of drama.
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Misan replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:38:05 am PDT

Originally posted by blankitosonic:
Thats the buff that tower shields got in HnH , huge block armor( power ) to take raw damage and big block force to take distance
Before tower shields just sucks im everything , thats why devs rework and balance them

But that "huge" block armor is useless if an equivalent buckler can take it too + parry, and you get staggered in 2 hits while the buckler keeps going.
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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jjones_50 replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:49:02 am PDT

make a silver shield
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Misan replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 8:54:12 am PDT

Originally posted by jjones_50:
make a silver shield

I just got to iron age, I'm not making a silver shield in a while.

I'm just trying to understand what is the point of tower shields.
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Igaku replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 9:04:55 am PDT

?
Parrying is still a viable and completely broken way to play the game. I feel like this is a valid complaint esp since i used a bone shield until i got an iron buckler and an iron buckler can parry fulings.... and deathquistos.

People should learn how to utilize all of the resources available to figure out if its weak or if youre just playing wrong
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Bobucles replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 9:19:37 am PDT

Last I played, tower shields were completely pointless. A half consistent parry beats out the heavy shield any day of the week.
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Anarchist Jurisdictor replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 9:26:40 am PDT

There will be no satisfying conclusion for you this update around, OP, they just tried and failed to make a compelling reason to use tower shields (more knockback). There was also no reason to use tower shields before the update. In a more sophisticated action RPG the solution would be to make larger attacks unparryable but make parrying smaller attacks even deadlier (Dark Souls) or to give you more passive protection when the shield isn't lifted (Mount & Blade). If they bother to address this again I can't really see their solution being anything but numerically nerfing parry bonus to the point where bucklers of the same biome of their respective tower shields can't quite reach the same block armor.
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Misan replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 9:35:41 am PDT

Originally posted by Anarchist Jurisdictor:
There will be no satisfying conclusion for you this update around, OP, they just tried and failed to make a compelling reason to use tower shields (more knockback). There was also no reason to use tower shields before the update. In a more sophisticated action RPG the solution would be to make larger attacks unparryable but make parrying smaller attacks even deadlier (Dark Souls) or to give you more passive protection when the shield isn't lifted (Mount & Blade). If they bother to address this again I can't really see their solution being anything but numerically nerfing parry bonus to the point where bucklers of the same biome of their respective tower shields can't quite reach the same block armor.

This is the best response so far.

It's just me going crazy but tower shields are actually just bad compared to parry shields.

I also agree with the Dark Souls analogy.

I just don't see why I would use an equivelant tower shield over a buckler which can parry AND magically doesn't stagger in 2 hits.

EDIT: And it seems like dodging / rolling away uses at least the same amount of stamina as hard *blocking, so there's no gameplay in using a smaller shield but rolling to avoid big attacks, unless I'm wrong on the stamina usage.

Waiting for the HnH update I was excited to finally be able to use those cool tower shields but they're useless.
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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Grandaddypurple replied to The shields are just broken... October 5, 2021 @ 9:42:51 am PDT

I've been using tower shields through my entire playthrough. I've been stagerred a few times, not that much, maybe I've died once or twice because of it. Upgrade your stuff
5:13 pm, October 5, 2021
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