Little Def of the Devs

I saw some posts on Grounded in this forum already and if it's the new Valheim but already released.

All I could say is: Don't abandon it just because it takes a little longer.
They could have upped the quality or increased the quantity of content in the big patch due to the increased workforce.

IG didn't had a mighty publisher behind them, with near infinite cash in the beginning. They started with a really small team and had a major success. They felt like they need to expand the team, get bigger workspace, whatsoever. It takes time for NEW developers to get acquinted with the rest of the team and vice versa! It takes some time to work like before if you moved to a new place! There might even be some remote guys most of the time.
That all slows down the process.

They don't communicate as much as they should but with all the hate recently I can't blame them for that. I really believe that they work hard for us! I love this game and even if they went astray with all this hype and went overboard, I still think they will finish the game.

For some kind of proof: I heard news of "Stomping Land" lately which implied the dev returned and wants to finish the game even if you can't buy it anymore or to finish it and go away with more money for releasing it if Steam makes it possible.

TLDR: I want some of you to chill down and wait for the (by quality standards given with release of EA) magic to happen. Please!

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

Jambalaia 0 comments 0 likes

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Suzaku replied to Little Def of the Devs October 25, 2022 @ 4:41:50 pm PDT

Originally posted by haunting_deer:
I dont get why people defend the current state of the game. When i see what a modder can pull up in his spare time and compare it to the updates we got the last year... uff i dont know how u can argue they care alot about this game. The roadmap was ambitious i get it but this game feels abandoned. And yeah money helps cause it solves problems so u can focus around ur task. I dont know how the game devs think about Valheim and so do u. We all speculate but the majority is angry and i think they have a reason to be.

I defend it because the game is already incredible and a steal at $20. You easily get more than your money's worth with what is currently available, and we're supposedly only halfway there. But even if the dev's took the money and ran today, you'd still get what you payed for.

As for modders, it's a lot easier to spend a couple months making a single system or some upgrade that has no strings attached. Hundreds of modders all free to do whatever they want, however they want, big or small, with no boss or community breathing down their neck. Failure has no drawbacks since modding likely isn't their livelihood.

Iron Gate is a studio with a few dozen people that have to make content within certain confines. Things need to be lore-accurate. They need to be balanced. They need to follow certain progression paths. They need to properly work with everything already in the game. The game's reputation can be damaged with a poorly implemented system, and those responsible could see repercussions for those mistakes.

People are angry because they're impatient, ignorant, and immature. Not because they have a reason.

2:13 pm, October 26, 2022

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Originally posted by haunting_deer:
I dont get why people defend the current state of the game. When i see what a modder can pull up in his spare time and compare it to the updates we got the last year... uff i dont know how u can argue they care alot about this game. The roadmap was ambitious i get it but this game feels abandoned. And yeah money helps cause it solves problems so u can focus around ur task. I dont know how the game devs think about Valheim and so do u. We all speculate but the majority is angry and i think they have a reason to be.

I don't get why people continue to complain about it.. complaining, whining, throwing a fit... none of that will change a single thing in re this game, regardless of what works in someone's personal life.

Modders make small changes (usually) to an existing framework, there is a freakton of code that they don't have to develop, write, and debug. Also most modders work alone - a single programmer has a higher productivity than a team member - doesn't have to please anyone else or explain an odd section of code to another.

On top of all that, if you are used to the US style of hyper-capitalism and culture; the environment in which the developers work is very different and likely unfamiliar to you. So it seems slow perhaps because they don't have a shop full of wage-slaves pounding out code on salary but with overtime hours. They are not slaves to the grind.

I do not believe for one second that the majority, or even a significantly large minority of people who have purchased Valheim in EA are angry. The only place I ever see any acting angry about it is here.

2:13 pm, October 26, 2022

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Originally posted by haunting_deer:
I dont get why people defend the current state of the game. When i see what a modder can pull up in his spare time and compare it to the updates we got the last year... uff i dont know how u can argue they care alot about this game. The roadmap was ambitious i get it but this game feels abandoned. And yeah money helps cause it solves problems so u can focus around ur task. I dont know how the game devs think about Valheim and so do u. We all speculate but the majority is angry and i think they have a reason to be.

Look, I started this soon after release with some friends and we had a blast playing it. Then some got occupied and it slept away. I play with my gf from time to time now. Still haven't beaten Bonemass btw. But most of my near 200 hours were with my friends and hell we had a good time. If you buy a AAA title nowadays for around 70-80 bucks you need to pray that it is even playable. 20 bucks for 200 hrs and probably more (hrs), im in for it!

For the roadmap. If you never released something could you tell how much time it takes or if it goes faster the more $$$ are thrown at you? I'd think not. If I'd develop a new game/program and it gets hyped liked that I'd think people expect even more quality than they already got.

2:13 pm, October 26, 2022

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Originally posted by haunting_deer:
I dont get why people defend the current state of the game. When i see what a modder can pull up in his spare time and compare it to the updates we got the last year... uff i dont know how u can argue they care alot about this game.

Because comparing a modder to people actually making a game is like comparing a line chef to someone who grows food.

It's a false equivalency, and a major fallacy as well.

2:13 pm, October 26, 2022

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Originally posted by haunting_deer:

On top of all that, if you are used to the US style of hyper-capitalism and culture; the environment in which the developers work is very different and likely unfamiliar to you. So it seems slow perhaps because they don't have a shop full of wage-slaves pounding out code on salary but with overtime hours. They are not slaves to the grind.

I do not believe for one second that the majority, or even a significantly large minority of people who have purchased Valheim in EA are angry. The only place I ever see any acting angry about it is here.

Living in the EU I have to give you a +1 for this one! Here and over the sea in Sweden you get compensation for overtime work as an employee.

They started with 4-5 and now have a couple dozen workers approximatly. Let them acclimate themselves and push out quality instead of whining for new content.

2:13 pm, October 26, 2022

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Iron John replied to Little Def of the Devs October 25, 2022 @ 6:29:18 pm PDT

The key to playing an EA game is to not see yourself as someone who is buying a game. You are investing in a game you want to see completed, and in return you are basically granted access to a late alpha/early beta version of the game. The best way to handle it is to return after content updates whenever they occur and check out whats new. Or even let a few updates go by so when you come back you have a ton to do. Ive got a few EA games I do this with, Valheim is one of them, SCUM, Star Citizen. Baldurs Gate 3 as well but I only played that like a year ago and am waiting for full release now.

I dont think they will abandon it. Abandonware usually only happens with games that see very little success. Valheim made them like 100 million dollars. Only total stupidity, negligence and corruption would cause them to go bankrupt and have to abandon the game.

Now the VR scene... that has a TON of abandonware games that never took off and the devs stopped supporting.

TLDR; dont make an EA game your "main game" because you will be disappointed

2:13 pm, October 26, 2022

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Originally posted by Suzaku:
I find it sad when some people remark "They made a ton of money and it's still taking forever for the game to come out!". Like, oh yeah! I forgot! Game development is when you shove dollars at a monitor. The more dollars you push against the screen, the faster the game comes out, right? Iron Gate just needs to hire more money shovelers and we'll have Mistlands and beyond in no time!

It's painfully clear too many people have no idea what goes into game development and, for their and the dev's sake, should stay away from early access titles entirely.

I should try that too. Shoving money against my monitor to make more money but I clearly can relate as a developer. I'm not a GAME developer but a developer and we have a saying here which translates to: "too many cooks spoil the broth." I want them to take their time for whatever reason (even if it's spending all this money they got) and deliver when it's ready!
But then I demand the same quality as before and I think we can all relate with that.

11:13 am, October 26, 2022

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Suzaku replied to Little Def of the Devs October 25, 2022 @ 4:17:50 pm PDT

I find it sad when some people remark "They made a ton of money and it's still taking forever for the game to come out!". Like, oh yeah! I forgot! Game development is when you shove dollars at a monitor. The more dollars you push against the screen, the faster the game comes out, right? Iron Gate just needs to hire more money shovelers and we'll have Mistlands and beyond in no time!

It's painfully clear too many people have no idea what goes into game development. I said it in another early access game's forum to a bunch of whiners and I'll say it here:
"Genuine, serious advice to you all: For your sake, and for the dev's sake never purchase another early access game ever again. You lack the patience and maturity to do so."

2:13 am, October 26, 2022

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haunting_deer replied to Little Def of the Devs October 25, 2022 @ 4:23:19 pm PDT

I dont get why people defend the current state of the game. When i see what a modder can pull up in his spare time and compare it to the updates we got the last year... uff i dont know how u can argue they care alot about this game. The roadmap was ambitious i get it but this game feels abandoned. And yeah money helps cause it solves problems so u can focus around ur task. I dont know how the game devs think about Valheim and so do u. We all speculate but the majority is angry and i think they have a reason to be.

2:13 am, October 26, 2022

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Originally posted by Eruelest:
I've been gaming for over 21 years and this game has the most potential I've seen in a very long time. They want to take it slow because they want to do it right the first time. You all (the people tapping their feet), do know that we are still in "Early Access". We are privileged enough to be a part of that! It is on the way. Yes, they sat there in awe of what they created and I'm sure were overwhelmed with the initial success. But for the first time, they actually are listening to the player base!! That is the most valuable asset. Most games out there like to placate us, but these people are "listening" They hear us. Just wait awhile longer. They do keep us updated, and if it's been awhile they say "Hi", this is what's up. Would you rather they bounced out content that is broken, incomplete or poorly done because it was done in a hurry? I'd rather wait and have the excellent quality we are seeing thus far!!

+1 on this one my fellow viking

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Originally posted by Sajuuk:
They are also deleting posts lmfao
this games devs are a joke

Direct your angst to the right place, moderators delete, devs gave them autonomy. Devs have nothing to do with deleting posts.

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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cardboardmark replied to Little Def of the Devs October 25, 2022 @ 2:23:49 pm PDT

They are making a computer game not engineering new technology. Updates should not take this long. This game looks like it's going to be abandoned. Even with mistlands the game feels half done. The game had SO much going for it but the dev sits on his money we gave him and doesn't do anything.

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Sajuuk replied to Little Def of the Devs October 25, 2022 @ 2:24:51 pm PDT

They are also deleting posts lmfao
this games devs are a joke

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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blprice61 replied to Little Def of the Devs October 25, 2022 @ 2:32:05 pm PDT

The mods should delete more posts. I come here for constructive, positive, discussions - not to hear a bunch of whining and complaining by self entitled ass hats.

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Originally posted by Sajuuk:
They are also deleting posts lmfao
this games devs are a joke

They deleted my post a week ago asking if Microsoft was planning to acquire their company, given that it was ported to xbox and is now on game pass. Kinda made sense for me to ask the question

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Originally posted by blprice61:
The mods should delete more posts. I come here for constructive, positive, discussions - not to hear a bunch of whining and complaining by self entitled ass hats.

you're litteraly doing what u describe :)

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Originally posted by cardboardmark:
They are making a computer game not engineering new technology. Updates should not take this long. This game looks like it's going to be abandoned. Even with mistlands the game feels half done. The game had SO much going for it but the dev sits on his money we gave him and doesn't do anything.

But they are not making a game for 20k people anymore which they expected to be the sell numbers. Now it was for millions after around a month if EA. And this game albeit not the newly invented wheel took the best aspects from similar games and threw them together and hype went overboard. I too think they went away a bit because profit but I also think they have the courage to finish it properly and by their standards.

Originally posted by Sajuuk:
They are also deleting posts lmfao
this games devs are a joke

Just as a question. Could you work enthusiatically when you mostly get hate and rush for feedback? They took longer than expected and didn't communicate it with us but who knows the reasons behind it except them. And would most of the community react approving if devs'd say "Sorry we can't push new update because some grandma died."?
No they would wish em to hell and I think that has to stop.

Of course if they have financial problems and can't finish the product they need to communicate that.
But would you want to inform your customers that you can't finish a product in time because of personal reasons?

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Originally posted by blprice61:
The mods should delete more posts. I come here for constructive, positive, discussions - not to hear a bunch of whining and complaining by self entitled ass hats.

I also wanted to see something positive about the game in a while. Thats why I started this discussion. All you see around is hypers not getting enough content while rushing throught or "Content When?" posts. Game/Update is finished when it's finished!

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Originally posted by Jambalaia:
Originally posted by cardboardmark:
They are making a computer game not engineering new technology. Updates should not take this long. This game looks like it's going to be abandoned. Even with mistlands the game feels half done. The game had SO much going for it but the dev sits on his money we gave him and doesn't do anything.

But they are not making a game for 20k people anymore which they expected to be the sell numbers.

No, it's not for a few peoples anymore. Now it's for so many more that they decide to build a door per month, cause all that money is heavy on their hands.

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Skeleman replied to Little Def of the Devs October 25, 2022 @ 3:06:53 pm PDT

I feel like the devs made their money and ran. If you have hope of it getting finished, more power to ya. But from what I have seen, I do not think this game will ever get a satisfying release.

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Originally posted by Thunder:
Originally posted by Jambalaia:

But they are not making a game for 20k people anymore which they expected to be the sell numbers.

No, it's not for a few peoples anymore. Now it's for so many more that they decide to build a door per month, cause all that money is heavy on their hands.

I don't know but what could have happened is that they thought they need to release more quantity as in for ex 2 bioms because they wanted to need the (questionable) crossplayfeature and thought they got behind to much. The mods won't tell us if devs won't allow it.

Originally posted by Skeleman:
I feel like the devs made their money and ran. If you have hope of it getting finished, more power to ya. But from what I have seen, I do not think this game will ever get a satisfying release.

I really don't think they ran but I'd admit to miscalculated with everything but abandon, no.

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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Eruelest replied to Little Def of the Devs October 25, 2022 @ 3:48:52 pm PDT

I've been gaming for over 21 years and this game has the most potential I've seen in a very long time. They want to take it slow because they want to do it right the first time. You all (the people tapping their feet), do know that we are still in "Early Access". We are privileged enough to be a part of that! It is on the way. Yes, they sat there in awe of what they created and I'm sure were overwhelmed with the initial success. But for the first time, they actually are listening to the player base!! That is the most valuable asset. Most games out there like to placate us, but these people are "listening" They hear us. Just wait awhile longer. They do keep us updated, and if it's been awhile they say "Hi", this is what's up. Would you rather they bounced out content that is broken, incomplete or poorly done because it was done in a hurry? I'd rather wait and have the excellent quality we are seeing thus far!!

11:13 pm, October 25, 2022

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