Building resources being late-game
I don't like that resources you need to build almost completely cosmetic structures are really late-game. I'm thinking about black marble here, but I do worry they might add more cool structures in the game that you can only build once in the 7th or 8th biome.
I understand that the mistlands biome is littered with black marble builds, and that a part of that update brought these new builds, so it makes sense that you obtain the material in said biome, but from the players perspective it just doesn't make sense.
I don't want to have to complete most of the game in order to use cool cosmetic building structures. Maybe you can rush to the biome and avoid any combat to get them a little earlier but with the mistlands I feel like that would be pretty miserable. thanks
I understand that the mistlands biome is littered with black marble builds, and that a part of that update brought these new builds, so it makes sense that you obtain the material in said biome, but from the players perspective it just doesn't make sense.
I don't want to have to complete most of the game in order to use cool cosmetic building structures. Maybe you can rush to the biome and avoid any combat to get them a little earlier but with the mistlands I feel like that would be pretty miserable. thanks
11:13 pm, May 16, 2023
Zathabar replied to Building resources being late-game May 19, 2023 @ 4:44:54 am PDT
Easy folks. I don't think anyone objects to the idea of more cosmetic build items do they? Thats the gist as I understood it of the OPs thought?
Yes there needs to be practical reward for progression again I don't believe the OP or anyone disagrees here with that. But if building and decorating are your thing then why not pile on the added recipes that make vanilla items look a bit better even if it doesn't boost up their practical benefits?
For example : We could use plain wooden shingle roofs oh so very much please instead of having to wait till you get Tar for the Darkwood ones for example? They could cost the same as Thatch have the same durability but could include a little more detail while stopping short of the clean lines and bold colours (And greater durability!) of Darkwood which should stay as a late game item.
I hope by the time the game gets to release 1.0 there will be build mats for each tier same as their is Armour and weapons however they do it.
Yes there needs to be practical reward for progression again I don't believe the OP or anyone disagrees here with that. But if building and decorating are your thing then why not pile on the added recipes that make vanilla items look a bit better even if it doesn't boost up their practical benefits?
For example : We could use plain wooden shingle roofs oh so very much please instead of having to wait till you get Tar for the Darkwood ones for example? They could cost the same as Thatch have the same durability but could include a little more detail while stopping short of the clean lines and bold colours (And greater durability!) of Darkwood which should stay as a late game item.
I hope by the time the game gets to release 1.0 there will be build mats for each tier same as their is Armour and weapons however they do it.
2:13 pm, May 19, 2023
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mfj replied to Building resources being late-game May 18, 2023 @ 10:25:41 pm PDT
the later and more aesthetically pleasing build pieces are sort of trophies themselves. they demonstrate your mastery of a biome. It really isn't all that odd that you have to work hard for the good mats. what kind of game just gives you the best stuff right away?
That was my point with the trinkets I mentioned. My problem is, as I'm sure many people experience, when I know I'm nearing the end of a survival game and will soon have no content left, my interest goes down quite a bit until I'm no longer interested in playing. This is why I do not like almost purely cosmetic STRUCTURES being right near the end of the game.
They're not cool little trophies that show your progress, the game has plenty of stuff like that, they're the literal fundamentals of your base. I want to experience having and using the cool looking mats like black marble for longer, not for the last biome in the game. I feel like that makes perfect sense. I'll put it like this: Imagine seeing foundations, walls and ceilings that you really like, and see as a nice cosmetic upgrade to your current base, but only having access to them after completing most of the game. It just means I get to experience them for only the last 15% of the game.
I don't expect this to change at all, I was just kind of ranting because I don't enjoy that part of some survival games. I also have no issue grinding either, I love grinding for the mats, so I don't want anything handed to me, I just don't want access to these almost completely cosmetic structures so late into the game that I barely get to experience them.
8:13 am, May 19, 2023
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mfj replied to Building resources being late-game May 18, 2023 @ 10:36:43 pm PDT
I'm very confused with this request/suggestion now. You want to play the game but you want the challenge of playing the game but not have to be challenged to get get later game rewards??? But you don't want to change the game??? But you don't want to just use build mode??? 🤯😵
What I want is to not have to progress through 80% of the game to finally get access to almost completely cosmetic base building pieces that completely change the way my base looks. I don't like that setup because I don't want to build/upgrade a base using these mats, to only use said base for the final 20% of the game.
If I was the type of player that could stay motivated to play even after completing the game, it would not be too much of an issue, but I'm not. Once I've ran out of content, I lose interest.
My point is, I again, do not like that almost purely cosmetic base building pieces, i.e. foundations, floors, ceilings, etc. Are only going to be available to me, once I'm nearing the end of the game, and won't get to experience them for very long.
I understand they're adding more biomes so I'll at least get to use black marble for longer next time I play, but I reckon they're probably gonna add more structures to the game that you're only able to use in the next 7th or 8th biome, which is just unfortunate for me. I don't expect it to change, I'm just ranting.
8:13 am, May 19, 2023
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mfj replied to Building resources being late-game May 18, 2023 @ 10:42:15 pm PDT
I see what you mean, but to me that would be pointless. Why bother to have game and level progression if you can access everything right away? I like the fact that you need to unlock as you go - adds to the sense of achievement.
I do like Zathabar's idea of a unlocking similar details to what you get in late game stages with different less expensive recipes, though I would hazard a guess that due to the finite nature of most mats in the game, it would be difficult to implement. Definitely a Valheim 2.0 endeavour.
I too very much enjoy progressing through these games. I think my main point is, it's a little irritating unlocking these pretty much completely cosmetic building pieces that are the fundamentals of your base, at a point in the game where I only get to experience them for the final parts of the game.
I don't want access to everything right away, and as I said would happily grind for these mats in a far less efficient way than just being in the mistlands. I have no issue with the grind and progression, I just find it unfortunate that I will only be able to experience whatever I build out of these mats for a small amount of time, that's all.
8:13 am, May 19, 2023
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mfj replied to Building resources being late-game May 18, 2023 @ 10:57:32 pm PDT
lets see. you cannot build with stone before you get the stone cutter. which is swamp. same deal.
you cannot build with black marble until mistlands. but you still need the stone cutter ANYWAY. so this is simply a non issue.
as adding extra methods to get black marble just so you can use it like 2 biomes earlier doesnt seem worth the dev effort needed. just switch to build mode with the new update and build everything you want. then switch back to survival.
thus this isnt really an issue at all.
alot of building material options dont become available until a certain point in progression. black marble is as cosmetic as stone building is which you also dont get earlier due to stone cutter. oh and its not even purely cometic. marble is fire resistent. stone is not.
so yeah. non issue.
Sure, not an issue for you. It's an issue for me though, one I don't expect to change, it's just annoying to me. It is what it is and I will accept it, but not without venting to people about it first.
I really don't see what's so difficult to understand about my point. I like the black marble structures, therefore would like to experience what I build using them for more time than it takes to complete the final biome, I feel like that's a perfectly valid issue.
I understand what you're saying about stone builds being available only when you have the stone cutter. As you said that's in the swamp, you need iron for it right? Iron comes from the crypts which you get access to after killing the SECOND boss, which isn't all too far into the game. It means that after killing the second boss and getting access to stone, you can build and enjoy the stone structures you build for like 70% of the game. Unlike black marble that you can experience for like 20%. (if you play like me, and stop playing once you've ran out of main content)
I also said "almost completely cosmetic structures". I understand it has a minor use. All in all my issue is, it's unfortunate for me to get access to almost completely cosmetic structure pieces including foundations, walls, and ceilings (the fundamentals of a base) so late into the game that I barely get to experience what I built with them, that is all I'm complaining about.
8:13 am, May 19, 2023
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Nerevar replied to Building resources being late-game May 18, 2023 @ 8:12:00 am PDT
lets see. you cannot build with stone before you get the stone cutter. which is swamp. same deal.
you cannot build with black marble until mistlands. but you still need the stone cutter ANYWAY. so this is simply a non issue.
as adding extra methods to get black marble just so you can use it like 2 biomes earlier doesnt seem worth the dev effort needed. just switch to build mode with the new update and build everything you want. then switch back to survival.
thus this isnt really an issue at all.
alot of building material options dont become available until a certain point in progression. black marble is as cosmetic as stone building is which you also dont get earlier due to stone cutter. oh and its not even purely cometic. marble is fire resistent. stone is not.
so yeah. non issue.
you cannot build with black marble until mistlands. but you still need the stone cutter ANYWAY. so this is simply a non issue.
as adding extra methods to get black marble just so you can use it like 2 biomes earlier doesnt seem worth the dev effort needed. just switch to build mode with the new update and build everything you want. then switch back to survival.
thus this isnt really an issue at all.
alot of building material options dont become available until a certain point in progression. black marble is as cosmetic as stone building is which you also dont get earlier due to stone cutter. oh and its not even purely cometic. marble is fire resistent. stone is not.
so yeah. non issue.
11:13 pm, May 18, 2023
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Jitatha replied to Building resources being late-game May 18, 2023 @ 12:02:30 pm PDT
If marble is fire resistant, do you think devs did this for the next biome by any chance...
11:13 pm, May 18, 2023
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Fzanco replied to Building resources being late-game May 17, 2023 @ 8:18:52 pm PDT
I'm very confused with this request/suggestion now. You want to play the game but you want the challenge of playing the game but not have to be challenged to get get later game rewards??? But you don't want to change the game??? But you don't want to just use build mode??? 🤯😵
5:13 am, May 18, 2023
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Renlish replied to Building resources being late-game May 17, 2023 @ 8:29:22 pm PDT
I see what you mean, but to me that would be pointless. Why bother to have game and level progression if you can access everything right away? I like the fact that you need to unlock as you go - adds to the sense of achievement.
I do like Zathabar's idea of a unlocking similar details to what you get in late game stages with different less expensive recipes, though I would hazard a guess that due to the finite nature of most mats in the game, it would be difficult to implement. Definitely a Valheim 2.0 endeavour.
I do like Zathabar's idea of a unlocking similar details to what you get in late game stages with different less expensive recipes, though I would hazard a guess that due to the finite nature of most mats in the game, it would be difficult to implement. Definitely a Valheim 2.0 endeavour.
5:13 am, May 18, 2023
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UncleAcidic replied to Building resources being late-game May 17, 2023 @ 6:14:09 pm PDT
the later and more aesthetically pleasing build pieces are sort of trophies themselves. they demonstrate your mastery of a biome. It really isn't all that odd that you have to work hard for the good mats. what kind of game just gives you the best stuff right away?
2:13 am, May 18, 2023
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mfj replied to Building resources being late-game May 17, 2023 @ 8:03:03 am PDT
Fair point, so whats you solution?
Thinking about for a moment I wondered if we could have "Carved wood" IE using the base wood stuff but adding some of the fluting and engraving you see on Darkwood but without the dark staining. Costs same mats cost a shade more in stamina to put down (to reflect the carving) but has same durability and requires a level 2 work bench to produce to reflect the added stuff need to decorate it.
Would something like that fit in the idea you have? If so flesh it out and suggest away! It could have legs!
I won't lie I don't have a solution, it's kind of a tough one. I'll definitely have a think about it if my input might actually be used in some small way.
Off the top of my head maybe some kind of "mini biome" that for example is a small version of the mistlands, just kind of nestled into an earlier biome, that is of no use in the way of game progression, but can be a good way of collecting the building resources you want earlier in the game. I have no idea how hard any of that would be to implement nor have I given it much thought but it's something.
I think a part of the problem would be that you wouldn't want to take away from the mistlands or whichever biome we're talking about. It's fun going through there and farming for those resources, so you wouldn't want less reasons to go there. I guess any other way of getting the building resources that doesn't involve going into the actual biome would have to be less efficient so that didn't happen.
Could you elaborate on your idea? Would it be a variant of the structure you're talking about? So you could have the cool pattern but it was missing the colour? Then you could essentially upgrade it when you are able to go into the biome? If I've understood correctly I do like that idea. It's just I really don't like any "whole/big" building structures being locked too far away, as they are now. A lot of games kind of do that with smaller decorative items, like little trinkets to put around your base, which I don't personally mind. It's just with the literal base building pieces, I'd like the option to use them closer to the start of the game, even if they take considerably longer to grind than they would when you're able to survive in whatever biome usually has them.
5:13 pm, May 17, 2023
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Zathabar replied to Building resources being late-game May 17, 2023 @ 9:19:36 am PDT
Hi Yes you got the gist of my off the cuff idea just fine get slightly inferior things that you could upgrade insitu when you had the full mats is one way of looking at it.
Small micro Biomes do occur already I got a tiny patch of swamp in one world that occasionally has a couple of Drags or slimes but mostly pops skelies or up to 4 leeches and stuff I even got one muddy scrap heap outta it before I finished off the elder so what you ant may in a sense be in game already depending on the RNG
But that's a crap shoot to find and not what you meant I know.
So by building an upgraded Work bench you could get wood build pieces Version 2.0 with a bit of decoration, a level 3 Bench unlocks the next level and so on possibly adding in extra mats for extra detail like the two colours of the Dark-wood beams.
Now when you came to upgrade said level 1 Wood build item to a "Carved" Level 2 one for example instead of requiring added wood or you to destroy and rebuild the upgrade options pops up and adds the decoration automatically when you click. All it costs is your time some Stamina and just Maybe having a wood workers knife in you inventory at the time.
If you then wanted to take it to say the "Level 3" Stained Carved Item then you would need just the "Stain" in your inventory as an added mat if your upgrading something or if building from new then the item would need base mats plus the added decorative mat(s)
Adding in higher level mats like Tar actually adds to the durability of the item so tar would serve as "Black Wood stain" and reinforcement as its a higher level mat, giving you then items we have now.
But at lower levels you should be able to brew a black wood-stain that simulates the look but adds no durability which might skew stuff like raids or PvP if that's enabled?
The various banners show us how different items could be stained. Though i'd personally introduce "Dyes" as a thing if a system anything like this got adopted.
But this is all theory crafting I doubt very much it'll fly as probably needed to have been built in from the start to really work.
An idea for Valhiem 2.0 if there ever is one perhaps?
Small micro Biomes do occur already I got a tiny patch of swamp in one world that occasionally has a couple of Drags or slimes but mostly pops skelies or up to 4 leeches and stuff I even got one muddy scrap heap outta it before I finished off the elder so what you ant may in a sense be in game already depending on the RNG
But that's a crap shoot to find and not what you meant I know.
So by building an upgraded Work bench you could get wood build pieces Version 2.0 with a bit of decoration, a level 3 Bench unlocks the next level and so on possibly adding in extra mats for extra detail like the two colours of the Dark-wood beams.
Now when you came to upgrade said level 1 Wood build item to a "Carved" Level 2 one for example instead of requiring added wood or you to destroy and rebuild the upgrade options pops up and adds the decoration automatically when you click. All it costs is your time some Stamina and just Maybe having a wood workers knife in you inventory at the time.
If you then wanted to take it to say the "Level 3" Stained Carved Item then you would need just the "Stain" in your inventory as an added mat if your upgrading something or if building from new then the item would need base mats plus the added decorative mat(s)
Adding in higher level mats like Tar actually adds to the durability of the item so tar would serve as "Black Wood stain" and reinforcement as its a higher level mat, giving you then items we have now.
But at lower levels you should be able to brew a black wood-stain that simulates the look but adds no durability which might skew stuff like raids or PvP if that's enabled?
The various banners show us how different items could be stained. Though i'd personally introduce "Dyes" as a thing if a system anything like this got adopted.
But this is all theory crafting I doubt very much it'll fly as probably needed to have been built in from the start to really work.
An idea for Valhiem 2.0 if there ever is one perhaps?
5:13 pm, May 17, 2023
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Zathabar replied to Building resources being late-game May 17, 2023 @ 3:06:28 am PDT
Fair point, so whats you solution?
Thinking about for a moment I wondered if we could have "Carved wood" IE using the base wood stuff but adding some of the fluting and engraving you see on Darkwood but without the dark staining. Costs same mats cost a shade more in stamina to put down (to reflect the carving) but has same durability and requires a level 2 work bench to produce to reflect the added stuff need to decorate it.
Would something like that fit in the idea you have? If so flesh it out and suggest away! It could have legs!
Thinking about for a moment I wondered if we could have "Carved wood" IE using the base wood stuff but adding some of the fluting and engraving you see on Darkwood but without the dark staining. Costs same mats cost a shade more in stamina to put down (to reflect the carving) but has same durability and requires a level 2 work bench to produce to reflect the added stuff need to decorate it.
Would something like that fit in the idea you have? If so flesh it out and suggest away! It could have legs!
2:13 pm, May 17, 2023
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Fzanco replied to Building resources being late-game May 16, 2023 @ 2:55:09 pm PDT
If you just want to build they are introducing a build mode where everything is free cost and enemies are neutral
11:13 pm, May 16, 2023
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mfj replied to Building resources being late-game May 16, 2023 @ 3:02:04 pm PDT
If you just want to build they are introducing a build mode where everything is free cost and enemies are neutral
I like that but I mean in a normal survival world. I do love building but as I'm sure most people understand you kinda lose motivation to play and build when you run out of content/can't progress anymore. So I really don't like really nice cosmetic items being so close to the end of the game
11:13 pm, May 16, 2023
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