Originally posted by hazelrah:

moder may have actually been a response to the cult of the wolf using fire magic.

The most common mountain runestone refers to wyrms as "Ymir's kin", so they likely predate the cult of the wolf (Fenrir being spawn of Loki) by a long time.

Originally posted by Fzanco:

Yeah I didn't think bonemass was Jotunn but maybe the supernatural essence of the Jotunn remains formed the amalgamation of undead which became the abomination bonemass?🤔

The swamp runestones don't refer to the ancient civilization destroyed and buried by the gods as jotun.

If the altar of Biomass is a mere construct and not actual remains of a formerly living creature, it could always have been fashioned after jotun remains by worshippers or other like-minded folks.

I think Bonemass is a part of the swamp because of the sheer number of undead there. Not entirely sure what the connection actually is, like whether Bonemass was another being cast into Valheim and made a forsaken that just gravitated towards the largest abundance of undead or maybe Bonemass is why those draugr forgot to die in the first place or what. But Bonemass themselves seems to be an amalgamation of corpses, not any singular being risen from the dead. Even the runestones warning the player describe bonemass with things like "Wanderer, look to your feet, that tread upon our tomb. One thousand bones without their meat, will drag you to your doom," which would make it seem like bonemass is an entity that just sort of acquires/absorbs what is around it to add to itself. Especially if you want to be picky about the word choice and notice specifically the "that tread upon OUR tomb" part, implying the draugr are incorporated into this mass.

Though if bonemass essentially just feeds on the dead/undead it is also totally possible that includes more than just the draugr to. The draugr are just one race that got horribly destroyed in Valheim. I imagine if a few giants also fell anywhere nearby, bonemass would have interest in those corpses to, maybe even a special interest in them considering they seem to have special properties. If bonemass has a special interest in Jotun corpses, then it could totally make sense to make the summoning alter out of one's skull, and offer large ancient bones (that may also be Jotun potentially, certainly larger than a draugr femur) to actually peak their interest.

eitr, harvested from the world tree, fuels magic. magic appears to have a corrupting influence on creatures in valheim. eikthyr is a magic fueled deer who seeks vengeance on you for killing his herd. the elder a magic twisted shoot of the world tree who also seeks vengeance for killing his children. bonemass a blob held together by magic forces, which may have also caused the destruction of the draugr and their land (a magic weapon gone wrong?) moder may have actually been a response to the cult of the wolf using fire magic. did the jotun also draw eitr from the world tree, and did that lead to their destruction?
what are the consequences of our use of magic? are we following our own path to destruction? does our exploitation of the world tree anger odin? our we poisoning yggdrasil, and threatening the destruction of all the worlds?

Fyi checked and Mugin definitely calls the remains in mistlands Jotunn.

Yeah I didn't think bonemass was Jotunn but maybe the supernatural essence of the Jotunn remains formed the amalgamation of undead which became the abomination bonemass?🤔 Or yeah maybe it's just a sir mixalot fixation.

True magic is not something to weild without consequences. Mugin says Jotunn were ousted which implies they were forcibly taken out but maybe that word play could make you think that but could literally mean they were ousted by the world tree for being unresponsible with their magic use

Originally posted by Fzanco:

1 boss an undead Jotun possibly
1 boss is powered by a jotun skull? Which is some form of undead being

Big bugs maybe decimated these beings possibly pushing them out where one survived being king of fulings and some others died but bringing birth to swamps and biomass.

It's interesting to think if this giant race dieing is actually the reason odin has sent some vikings out into valheim. Maybe the Jotun were the previous protectors of valheim and now they're gone the enemies of Odin have gained strength again.

So were the bugs an implemented plan by some other third party (maybe Ashland or deep north boss) to get rid of the Jotun or was it just unlucky some bugs evolved to kill the jotuns. Mugin says they used to rule the tenth world and then were ousted by some other power.

All that makes sense. Also Jotunn in norse cult were also referred as beings that were highly intelligent and comfortable with magic. And they probably had different shapes and looks, not necessarilly what most people think of.
As for the bugs, those may be jotnarr as well, or some ancient creatures from Jotunn realms.
Oversized ticks, for example, could be normal for a Jotunn, as they would look like rl ticks in comparison.

Ok so yeah the bugs probably just thrived and took over mistlands without the Jotunn.

Who got rid of them? Why not Odin? Maybe Odin saw ungratefulness in the Jotunn or they were actually growing in power that he didn't like and smite them before they could be a bigger problem than the forsaken trapped in valheim.

That's why Odin whatches the player at night to see if your getting too cocky and powerful and if the player needs to be smite down.

"Jotun" consists and contains a wide variety of supernatural beings from mythology. You can read that on Wikipedia or elsewhere. :)

Some examples of jotun:

Ymir
Thor's mother
The Norns
Loki (half-jotun)
Surtr
Jörmungandr
Hel
Trolls

AFAIK Yagluth would almost certainly fit as jotun (literally ripped apart by Odin and still not truly vanquished), but his nature as fuling sorcerer-king should be given precedence, it's far more accurate definition and more practical in Valheim's context.

In short, you could very well claim as the Biomass altar's skeleton either as jotun remains, there'd be little way of contesting your stance on that.

We could also take a look at what creatures of Valheim are likely not jotun/jötnar:

Eikthyr (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eik%C3%BEyrnir)
Elder (shoot of Yggdrasil)
Biomass (undead abomination)

And finally, since even the World Serpent Jormungandr can considered to be jotun due to family relation (offspring of Loki and jotun), we can't really be sure about Moder and the Queen:

Moder (frost wyrms are "most ancient kins sprung from Ymir's body", implying close relation, which is important when considering nature of jotun)
The Queen – too little information available, could be nothing else than a mere "beast" similar to Eikthyr

Bonemass isn't a Jotun, but an abimination made of multiple dead bodies.
If you have a 2nd trophy, hang it at your wall and at some point you will see a message about thanking you or killing Bonemass, as it will release all those who were captured in it.

If you look closer to the trophy, you'll also notice it's made from multiple skeleton (-pieces), like two skulls for eyes, rib cages for teeth and so on.
So Bonemass isn't a Jotun at all.

The skull you summon him can be the remains of a Yotun, as later in the Mistlands you'll find ribcages and skulls as well as giant swords and helmets. The latter two are occasionally found near petrified bones. Not to mention, you find a similar kind of "soft tissue" in a petrified Jotunskill as you find inside a Dvergr skull.

It is however, likely that Yagluth was a Jotun when comparing the size of what's left of him with the petrified bones and skulls. It would at least explain why he was a King.

Thorin :)

Also, is yagluth a jotun as well?

Originally posted by Angrybeard:

Also, is yagluth a jotun as well?

Oh Yeah, seems like this race of giants is the source of a lot of happenings in this realm of valheim

1 boss an undead Jotun possibly
1 boss is powered by a jotun skull? Which is some form of undead being

Big bugs maybe decimated these beings possibly pushing them out where one survived being king of fulings and some others died but bringing birth to swamps and biomass.

It's interesting to think if this giant race dieing is actually the reason odin has sent some vikings out into valheim. Maybe the Jotun were the previous protectors of valheim and now they're gone the enemies of Odin have gained strength again.

So were the bugs an implemented plan by some other third party (maybe Ashland or deep north boss) to get rid of the Jotun or was it just unlucky some bugs evolved to kill the jotuns. Mugin says they used to rule the tenth world and then were ousted by some other power.

well didn't Mugin or Hugin, can't remember witch, say when you first find a mistlands skull that its a jotun skull? or am I remembering incorrectly

interestingly the 'giants' the viking spoke of were never any bigger than anyone else, as far as we understand it. I So a gigantic skull isn't even likely to be Jotun.

Jotuns come in all sizes. Perhaps this one was some cyclopean ancient not descended from Bergelmir.