you should not have to do this, so up front I agree that they need work. but..

like anything in this game, you can find creative uses for them. I have a border forest/meadows base that is lively with dwarf, troll, fuling, boar, deer, neck, and the occasional lost skeleton.
Ive set up 3 of the ballistas in protected black marble housings and load them with about 5 shots each. After a busy night, all 3 are shot out empty and I can just loot the next morning and reload them. Pretty good addition to the existing warzone though the fulings just kill everything so its not much better than just cleaning those out after they have had their fun.

My complaint is that they miss too much, so each kill takes 2-3 shots or more if the enemy starts running in panic.

you know they shoot at you. the range is short, the angle is limited, so you can arrange to not cover an area you want to walk in, or you can wait on them to empty before going out there, or you can just avoid being shot by not standing still and moving lateral to its fire.

A well designed automated system trades resources or resource efficiency for convenience.

Ballistae are trading efficiency for even more inconvenience.

The trophy thing and the attacking the player thing has a clear balancing reason put behind it: make it unusable on bosses (or until you beat them at least once).

Any sane dev would have just made then unable to target bosses but instead we get a system that goes against the principle of its purpose.

Yes you can work around certain issues and streamline the tedious process, but that doesn't change the fact that it's tedious.
Remember that you also consume ammo to do something that would cost you nothing or almost nothing if you did it yourself...

In the end you're wasting time and resources (which is more time wasted to collect them) on something that is supposed to help you not waste time.

Also they put in an enemy in that is extra tanky when being shot from the front.
The game very clearly doesn't want you to use them so why do they exist?

Originally posted by Lorska:

Remember that you also consume ammo to do something that would cost you nothing or almost nothing if you did it yourself...

That kind of thinking can be applied to almost everything in the game. For example, you can lure a gjall to mountain or cliff side and just melee it. It's not even particularly impractical if you find a good positiong.

Ballista can be used to defend your home autonomously. It does cost resources. Should this not be so? The wooden stake missiles take very small amount of resources, you can use that for small stuff if you wish, and save the black metal missiles (which cause 120 piercing damage btw) for designated enemies like seekers. I wouldn't mind if the latter were a little better though, it doesn't seem like they can actually stagger seekers, but I doubt this is the end of ammunition variety for ballista so in future we can probably load them with elemental missiles.

Ballista is a game feature that is optional and situational. You don't need to use it if you don't think it's worth your time and effort, and I'd advise against anyone thinking of ballista as some sort of universal solution to defense, as Angrybread already explained above. Games are made for audiences of millions, and having every player's base defended in exactly same manner or every character using same equipment would just be boring.

Compare black metal missiles with black metal bolts and you can see they are not expensive at all, even if the ballista is likely to miss on its targets.

You missed my point.
Being inefficient is fine.
Using resources to do so is fine.

But the effect should give a comparable result in return. Either firing at you or having to jump through hoops just so it accomplishes basic functions is not comparable to the drain on resources (including the requirements to set it up in the first place).

Saying it can't be good or usable because then people would use it is an absurd statement. Especially considering the popular alternative to defense right now is creating indestructible walls made out of dirt.

Originally posted by Lorska:

But the effect should give a comparable result in return. Either firing at you or having to jump through hoops just so it accomplishes basic functions is not comparable to the drain on resources (including the requirements to set it up in the first place).

Well I don't know about you but I have a vast quantity of seeker trophies stored away lol. I think I could set up maybe 10 of them to cover my entire base from seekers.

Anyway, my point was that for designated automated targeting, ballista seems pretty fine. So long as half the projectiles land at their targets, it's just as effective as firing black metal munitions yourself if we're looking at just the damage values and resource costs and not considering the potential "volume of fire" effects available when you are engaging a target which is also being fired upon by ballista.

Originally posted by Lorska:

Saying it can't be good or usable because then people would use it is an absurd statement. Especially considering the popular alternative to defense right now is creating indestructible walls made out of dirt.

Never said that, and on my own part, I've always relied on proper walls and not ditches or mounds, so can't really relate to the latter.

The ideal scenario is having different defenses available for different players, playstyles and bases. You can forgo use of stone walls or ballistae, it matters not. The only thing that matters are results and if you don't think ballista provide those for you, that's fine, you have other options available to you.

Originally posted by NiceGuy:

1. Nobody really needs a automatic ballista. It's a nice to have deco thingy implemented for style. Or to play around with it and see what stupid things one can do 😎🤪
2. It only shots if it's loaded so I have a arrow chest next to it and if there is a raid and I feel the"need"to play around with the ballista I load arrows into it.
3. BUT till the ballistas get rid of a raid I would have killed the enemies at least 2 times by hand without wasting ballista bolts ...🤪
4. But after beating midlands there was never ever a single situation when the ballistas or the traps were needed.

Needed or not; they're useless.
If they weren't useless it could be coupled with an automated wood farm to automate killing minor, annoying enemies that everyone complains about.
For some of us, the thrill of killing countless dwarflings has somewhat lost its thrill.

Having ballista targeting be more player friendly (not the 'aiming reticle wants to touch your face' kind of friendly) wouldn't invalidate all other base defense options though.
If anything it makes it reasonable to use.

I get not arguing for changes to improve them, if you don't want them don't use them but I don't get why people argue against it. They're simply not reasonable right now.

I know that even if they didn't target players I would hesitate using them myself because the constant drain on ammo is something I'd dread but I'd at least consider them.
Sure I'll build some for aesthetic reasons but that can't be their actual purpose...

Originally posted by Yes, I have a Mic.:

For some of us, the thrill of killing countless dwarflings has somewhat lost its thrill.

I can understand that too, but what escapes me is how greydwarves are such a problem to begin with. I'm literally ignoring them 90% of the time, they can't get through my defenses and I just go to sleep or portal out lol.

Personally, I think ballistas need to be redone, as they are currently useless. Who would ever build a ballista that targets themselves? No matter what else is done with them in terms of what they will or will not target, this has to go.

For that matter in coop games, ballistae are equally useless if they shoot other players as well. Ballistae need to have a toggle switch for shooting players - "Don't shoot me" and "don't shoot any player", or just have that controlled by whether the PvP setting is on for the session.

Besides this, the trophy system while superficially seeming reasonable is also not great. Having only the "shoot everything (including me)" and the "shoot only this one creature" is not useful. Being able to load multiple trophies to allow shooting a range of targets might be a bit better, but not much. Given trophies are somewhat rare drops it will take a good while before you collect enough Gjall trophies to be able to set up multiple ballistae to defend your base from them.

I think a more obvious option is two have another toggle for "shoot flyers only", "shoot ground mobs only" and "shoot everything". This in combination with the "don't shoot me"/"don't shoot any player" would give a more acceptable range of options that might be easier to code than some sort of targeting array that would list every mob with a "Y/N" option.

Personally, given their propensity to devastate my Jotun Puff crops my main use for ballistae might be field defense, IF the dang things would stop shooting me.

Originally posted by Yes, I have a Mic.:

I think if you could use multiple trophies on one it might be workable.
Maybe have three slots you can cycle trophies in and out of.

Build a pair of item stands next to the ballista and put the other trophies there. It takes a few more clicks but same result.

Originally posted by Reaverbait:

Personally, I think ballistas need to be redone, as they are currently they are useless. Who would ever build a ballista that targets themselves? No matter what else is done with them in terms of what they will or will not target, this has to go.

It's the norm rather than an exception that fully automated traps don't discriminate. Claw traps also won't discriminate despite also existing as allegedly magical construct.

Originally posted by Reaverbait:

I think a more obvious option is two have another toggle for "shoot flyers only", "shoot ground mobs only" and "shoot everything". This in combination with the "don't shoot me"/"don't shoot any player" would give a more acceptable range of options that might be easier to code than some sort of targeting array that would list every mob with a "Y/N" option.

There are only two types of flying enemies which can appear at the same time, drakes/seekers and bats. I don't see bats requiring use of ballista, but I can understand someone wanting to cover their domesticated animals.

Either way, the solution is to simply build more ballistae. This will also give your more ammo capacity and flexibility in selection of ammunition if you wish to spend black metal for that purpose.

Ballista is not meant as the sollution for everything. You can use other tools for wolves, fuling etc. like bear traps, stakes, trenches, tamed wolves to name some. Adding a specific trophy to target one enemy at a time is perfectly balanced, imo, and does not waste precious ammo on weak enemies like bats, while also allowing you to build the ballista anywhere without the concern of hitting unecessary mobs.

1. Nobody really needs a automatic ballista. It's a nice to have deco thingy implemented for style. Or to play around with it and see what stupid things one can do 😎🤪
2. It only shots if it's loaded so I have a arrow chest next to it and if there is a raid and I feel the"need"to play around with the ballista I load arrows into it.
3. BUT till the ballistas get rid of a raid I would have killed the enemies at least 2 times by hand without wasting ballista bolts ...🤪
4. But after beating midlands there was never ever a single situation when the ballistas or the traps were needed.

There's a good reason why you can't target the ballista at enemies in general. Then ballista could be used unfairly against bosses. I personally aimed the ballista on the mountain to shoot the drakes because the wolves don't come through the walls and the golems don't spawn nearby. At Meadows, I aimed every other ballista to shoot seekers and fulings.

I think if you could use multiple trophies on one it might be workable.
Maybe have three slots you can cycle trophies in and out of.

there is simply no reason to make em target melee ground only enemies. walls stop these already. so target ranged/flyers enemies only. and maybe trolls depending on base defenses.

In the mistlands interview they said all traps are able to hurt the player. Maybe don't load the ballista untill you need to use it for raids or the like I mean otherwise your ballista will just be taking out trash spawns

Yeah the ammo is wood and core wood, not exactly rare non-renewable resources.

Originally posted by BauerHaus:

Are they supposed to shoot the player? I just got popped by my own automated ballista collecting loot from its other kills.

There are no other enemies around, it's definitely targeting me.

I hope they remove the ballista attacking players, I mean really, we can make magic auto targeting weapons but not control what they target? Seems lame to me.

https://valheim.thunderstore.io/package/Azumatt/ImFRIENDLY_DAMMIT/ just a mod for the current workaround.

Originally posted by Fzanco:

In the mistlands interview they said all traps are able to hurt the player. Maybe don't load the ballista untill you need to use it for raids or the like I mean otherwise your ballista will just be taking out trash spawns

The ballista isn't really a trap it's a defensive weapon. This item shouldn't be able to attack the player.

Does it know the difference between the player and the mobs during a raid? Cuz I don't want to worry about the raid and getting shot by my own defenses.

Spikes bear traps ext. Are all fine if they do dmg to the player. But ballista doesn't make sence.

Gonna be honest the first time it got me I was fighting something in melee, so I couldn't tell you if it prioritized him or me, it was firing at him before I got in range and it feels like it shot at him after I noticed what was happening and backed off (meaning the gray dwarf shaman iirc was closer).

For all I know though it was shooting at him the whole time and I just got in the way, but after it was dead it kept shooting at me.

Do they sense movement or something? I'm intrigued now.

Seems its just proximity.

Originally posted by .S.K.Y.:

dev stated in an interview that its intented to shoot u also so i highly doubt it wil change to only shoot the baddies

That's just a completely moronic design, then.

Originally posted by .S.K.Y.:

dev stated in an interview that its intented to shoot u also

WHAT?!?! Why on Odins green midgard would I want a defense system that targets me?!?! What kind of misbegotten dipshitery is that???

Dont worry I sure there will be a mod that will fix it, you can be sure.

Originally posted by .S.K.Y.:

dev stated in an interview that its intented to shoot u also so i highly doubt it wil change to only shoot the baddies

Is it really a defensive base item at this point. Something that defends ur base shouldn't beable to go rogue and shoot u.

Tbh that's just Plain dumb design. Those spikes we can place around our base is one thing.

Now how does this know the difference between u and mobs that are raiding ur base. Not in mistlands since I started a new seed in public test.

Seems now instead of worrying about the raid u gotta worry about being shot by ur own defenses on tip of the raid.

Easy way to fix this would be tie it to pvp if it's on it will shoot u if not it only defends. I don't want to be at my base getting shot by something that's supposed to defend the base.

Guys you can build it in a dungeon you know?

i think it targets you because it just recognizes you as "player" and its so it can be used as a trap for PvP, and it makes no distinction between builder and other players in the world.

What they should do though is any wards built in its vacinity, players registered to use items in the ward won't be targeted. Maybe that's too hard for their programmers though, lol.

Yeah, that sounds really dumb. Hopefully they fix that so it's an actual defense before the update leaves the public test.

dev stated in an interview that its intented to shoot u also so i highly doubt it wil change to only shoot the baddies

I mean when you place it, it points at you instead of the creatures

I think you aren't meant to be able to "set and forget" it but keep a chest of bolts near it and only load it if there's a raid.

shoot back at the autonomous ballista with your wizard staff!

is this even valheim?

i would like to use it against trolls and abominations but it not in game atm.